Huntsman ammo generation

[Raghnailt]

This [cdn.discordapp.com] is why I honestly don't think anyone complaining about Kruber's ammo generation actually plays Huntsman correctly. A friend and I ran Skittergate (randomed in to it, fun times) with a self-imposed challenge. That is to say, my friend was playing Kruber and decided that they'd only use their ranged weapon for the entire game, which they did. Their one melee kill is just because instincts are hard to go against, lol.

We had two bots until we got to Norsca, granted, but we never had a ranger bardin so all of their ammo came from headshots and pickups - - You just need to run the right traits and know how to use bow properly and Huntsman has effectively infinite ammo. I'm sorry it's a bit harder than just waiting for the incredibly slow arrow regen that Kerillian has, which you shouldn't pick anyway since rejuvenating locus is better, but the lack of PASSIVE ammunition generation is more than made up for with Kruber's raw power. Not to mention you generate 3 arrows per headshot, which means you gain a net of two per headshot. You regenerate all of your ammunition every horde if you're playing correctly.

(I forgot to mention this directly but yes my friend was running a bow)

[Sotanaht]

Scavenger changes probably hurt Kruber a bit too. Used to be you could just ult (which makes all your shots free) and spam into a horde, that would normally top you off. But then, when I ran that I didn't even run the extra headshot boosts anyway. I don't imagine he's suffering that much except maybe for the machine (hand)gun build, but handgun builds use melee for non-elite/specials anyway.

[Raghnailt]

You still can top off from ulting against a horde if you're running a bow, I've never seen a handgun Huntsman do as well as one running a bow though, even pre-beta.

[braaap]

because if you want to do well with handgun you have to go for headshots or you will run out of ammo in a blink of an eye. you don't have the luxury of headshot cleaving a horde like bow does. bolt/arrow weapons in this game are retardproof.

[Bones]

Bow still needs scrounger to use it to full effect. Handgun has always been better with conservative. It hasn't really felt the changes much apart from a slight decrease in horde killing power.

[Raghnailt]

I'd argue that Bow's better with conservative, and that Bow is just a better weapon so you should take it over handgun anyway, but that's not what I posted this for. I posted this because I'm sick of people saying that Huntsman can't generate as much ammunition as BH or WS when that simply isn't true. You need to play just a bit more intelligently with him, but that's not hard.

[Breadfully]

Bow doesn't need scrounger to be used to full effect. And Handgun was never great at dealing with hordes due to it's long reload time. Handgun's Kruber's special killing king. It can easily one shot every special with a tiny amount of investment. And handgun is a hitscan with zero drop off. So lol. I will admit it's kinda silly the gun doesn't pierce well. But I guess tiny bullets get stuck in bones. Or something

[Kjerad]

Originally posted by Raghnailt:

I'm sorry it's a bit harder than just waiting for the incredibly slow arrow regen that Kerillian has, which you shouldn't pick anyway since rejuvenating locus is better, but the lack of PASSIVE ammunition generation is more than made up for with Kruber's raw power.

Vaal's Quiver is always a better option over Locus. Having literally endless supply of any arrows makes this career good in the first place, outside of having Trueshot Volley, of course. 10s/Arrow is just enough to use it for anything you need, and provided that you can regen ammo with Kurnous' Blessing as well, this is probably more than you'll ever need for anything outside of a boss. And it regenerates constantly, opening up better weapon trait choices for any purpose, like Barrage for boss DPS (Longbow/Hagbane) or Hunter (Swiftbow) for some nice breakpoints.

But going back to Huntsman - well, duh, ammo is not the problem for Manbow in any case, but, um...

Originally posted by Raghnailt:

I've never seen a handgun Huntsman do as well as one running a bow though, even pre-beta.

Probably because Handgun Huntsman and Manbow Huntsman are two distinctively different playstyles, unless you mean it generally. I'd much rather have a Huntsman that knows what Handgun does and executes it against certain Elites and all Specials than a Manbow Huntsman that doesn't use (or doesn't know how to) melee at all (which isn't a part of a dare/challenge), and I've seen far too many of the latter type.

[Breadfully]

If you can aim with elf, all you really need is lvl 25 (because the other two are trash) and conservative shooter. This post wasn't really made to argue about gun shoot move vs manbow. There's several posts around saying HS is gutted because of Scrounger nerfs. Which frankly it isn't. The changes in beta to handgun should be reverted and manbow should be nerfed. Because it just invalidates other options because it does everything well. Gun still works, incredibly well at that.
And to go to Vaul's Quiver. It is good if you're.. well a greedy ♥♥♥♥ (which most elves are). But I don't believe it should be nerfed, it's fine as is. A single shot every 10s is great and all. But.. I can literally finish a mission as HS without unsheathing my halberd. (Which is still great after the 'nerfs') And you notice Keri's regen when it's aoe. Game becomes mega easy with it. Though I guess I'm just used to running around with randoms who die to solo chaos warriors.
I do think glaive heavy shouldn't have gotten buffed, it's lolworthy but it was fine as is. A little slow but it did the job. Spear needed a buff because it was just a worse glaive in live and if anything with armor showed up, you p much ♥♥♥♥♥♥ off. And headshots still do less dmg than Halberd (WITH arcane bodkins. Which works on melee weapons. Lol)

[Breadfully]

Oh yah, also I'm "Breadfully" on the tag. Ragh just has my nicknamed >:(

[Sotanaht]

Originally posted by Raghnailt:

You still can top off from ulting against a horde if you're running a bow, I've never seen a handgun Huntsman do as well as one running a bow though, even pre-beta.

Handgun with the increased reload speed on headshot becomes a machine gun during Huntsman Kruber's ultimate. He can do more damage in one ultimate than a Shade to a boss, but he can only do it once.

The main purpose of the handgun though is for special sniping. Handgun Huntsman has to play a bit more melee heavy into hordes than Bow Huntsman, but he has an easier time killing all the specials. He can also deal with CWs effectively owing to the Handguns incredibly long stun and armor piercing on non-headshots. 3 Body shots are enough to kill a CW usually (might require 1 crit or 1 headshot), and the CW will just stand there for the entire time stunned.

[Breadfully]

LB also stun locks them. And they just stand there waiting to get headshot. CW are ammo dispensers for HS. And I have no idea how anyone could claim he's gutted because of the Scrounger Nerf.

[Sotanaht]

Originally posted by Smug Elf Main:

LB also stun locks them. And they just stand there waiting to get headshot. CW are ammo dispensers for HS. And I have no idea how anyone could claim he's gutted because of the Scrounger Nerf.

Longbow stuns are much shorter duration and only work if you hit the head. I'm also not convinced they last long enough for you to hit them with your next arrow, so you probably have to hit a moving target. CW heads are deceptively tiny.

Handgun stuns them even on a body shot and for WAY longer than it takes to reload and fire again. If you headshot (for reload bonus) you could probably stunlock 2 CWs at the same time with handgun. And again, 3 body shots vs 5 headshots.

[Breadfully]

They do not only work if you headshot. Source. Skittergate legend 2 hours ago. And the duration is long enough for you to A: Line up a headshot or B: Shoot him again. And my LB takes 4 headshots to kill (which is easy when they're STANDING STILL from being stunned) And if you get I'm Coming for Ya and crit with your ult, you can one shot a CW with your ult. Source. Skittergate legend 2 hours ago. It needs a lot of things to line up, but you could also just double headshot with ult.

[Cacomistle]

Were there really people complaining about Hunstmans ammo? On live at least, as someone who hits like 10 percent headshots I never came close to running out of ammo on bow hunstman.

[Breadfully]

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-the-huntsman/21390/12 There's a whole forum of them.
Edit: Again I did one of the longest missions with just the LB. LB is really good. Could I do it with Handgun? Maybe. I'm just sick of people saying this class is worthless. He's garbage. He can't do anything now. Never has ammo. And then I can do stuff like this. I could never hope to do that with elf. I don't want Kruber to be nerfed,I just want my main to not be garbage.
Btw, you can invest every single possible point and then some (15% talents on Shade and HM) and you will still not one shot a SV. I can headshot SV. it's not hard. It's just annoying that I have to do that while Kruber is sitting over there with his bow, stun locking two or three Chaos Warriors to death (YES, I've done that) with body shots. Headshots aren't needed. You can just body shot everything and kill it fairly well. Then when a horde comes, headshot ONE clanrat, slave rat, fanatic or marauder and boom. You have a ton of ammo (like.. 8 or so gained from one arrow). That is infinitely better than "o well every 10s I regen 1 arrow." yah. that's really nice. I'm glad HS rewards skilled play with his headshot bonuses. But WS DEMANDS headshots to be on par with Kruber.
Also WS passive and ult are boring as ♥♥♥♥, I wish they were anything else.

REEEEdit: And no offense, but then there's people like Sotanaht who are just.. ignorant. And that's not his fault or anything. I hate to be a smug ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ (despite the name) but I think I've played enough of every character to say that HS is by and far the best class. In my humble opinion. One shotting one of the more dangerous units in the game, having no noticeable range damage drop off, aswell as one of the safest, hard hitting melee weapons in the game. Sure I can dodge around with the spear (And I enjoy doing that) but I could just.. stand there. Hold guard, shove, cleave with halbard, repeat. Some people also complain about Kruber being unable to dodge as far as Kerillian. But.. it doesn't matter, because if you dodge at the right time (which is the same time for everyone to my knowledge) enemies just miss, even if their attacks should hit you. Source. Screaming Bell mission. Dodged back with halbard, guard down, dodged into corner of a wall. Fanatic's hit wiffed through my body.