Warhammer: Vermintide 2

Warhammer: Vermintide 2

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Red Shell Spyware?
Red shell is a Spyware that tracks data of your PC and shares it with 3rd parties. On their website they formulate it all in very harmless language, but the fact is that this is software from someone i don't trust and whom i never invited, which is looking at my data and running on my pc against my will. This should have no place in a full price PC game, and in no games if it were up to me.

Red Shell can collect the following to create a 'fingerprint' unique identifier for your computer:

Your Gamer tag (Steam, Xbox live, PSN, etc) may be used

Redshell also mentions that they do/have collect[ed] ip addresses

Operating System (e.g., Windows 10, Windows 7, Mac OS X 10.11.5, Windows Vista Service Pack 2)

Screen Resolution (e.g., 1920x1080, 1440x900)

Timezone (Based on offsets of UTC)

Language (Your computer's language or region code, e.g., en, de, en-us, en-ca)

Installed Fonts (All fonts installed on the computer)

Installed Browsers (Names and version numbers)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/8pud8b/psa_red_shell_spyware_holy_potatoes_were_in_space/

I found this .dll in my V2 folder; steamapps\common\Warhammer Vermintide 2\binaries

I never opted in for this, so does this not mean you not only secretly collect information but also are in violations of GDPR in which users shall have knowledge of information collected and actually OPT IN for data collection?
What do you even use it for, why is it here?

Edit: While about DBD it pretty much works the same for Vermintide II as well, https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/8q1365/dead_by_daylight_is_using_redshell_spyware/e0fubg7/

Since the GDPR law is now in effect all services have to comply to a couple things that includes;

Users have to be made aware and have to agree upon the data collection

Users have the ability to request their data thats being collected

Users have the right to request deletion of the data that is collected

Services can not force users to accept data collection that does not improve/is required for the service ran.

Users have the right to opt out of any tracking involved that isnt necessary for the service to work

If you look at these 4 points you can see Dead By Daylight and redshell breaches every single one of these;

I personally was never asked if i agreed on these trackings

Where the ♥♥♥♥ do i even request this information let alone request to delete it

Let me tell you, whatever fonts i have installed whatever internet browser i use has NOTHING to do with Dead By Daylight it isn't going to help u balance the game either

since the tracking is done by a third party website the onlyway of opting out is emailing redshell and "believe" them they wont track you anymore
Last edited by Your Majesty™; Jun 10 @ 10:19am
Originally posted by [Fatshark] Hedge:
Thank you for all your enthusiastic feedback on the matter of Red Shell. We can confirm we will be removing Red Shell in a future update.

Whilst it's a no more than a tool we can use to improve our marketing campaigns in the same way a browser cookie might (although even less 'invasive' than a browser cookie), we can also appreciate that this kind of mechanism is frowned upon by you, our fans, and whilst we'd love to be able to break down the very ins and outs of how it works and how safe it is, we're not Red Shell and cannot always answer your questions or concerns as effectively as you'd like. We apologise that you feel violated and will note in the patch notes exactly when the library is removed from the game, but know that before that time the library will be out of action.

Thank you all again, and may Sigmar guide you.
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Showing 271-285 of 607 comments
Rocket Surgery (Banned) Jun 14 @ 10:47am 
Originally posted by Algol:
Originally posted by Enso Gummiel:
SO you don't want they to waste as little of the moeny we gave them for as effective marketing campaigns as possible (meaning more moeny can be put into developing the game further)
Exactly. I'm just that of a jerk.

Were they to ask me if it's okay for them to use some of my computer processing power to help them with their marketing, while offering me some in-game reward (a hat?), I would have probably agreed. But they haven't, so it's a matter of principle now.
i actually really like this idea...

maybe fatshark can implement something where we can opt in to help them out of some sort of gifts lke a hat or a hat up front and then a couple free emp vualts every month.

i hope this gets some visability. they really shoudl just ask us to help them and then give us something extra if we do.
Yggdrasil Jun 14 @ 10:51am 
Originally posted by Algol:
I get why this is indeed funny, but I'd like to look at the serious side of this issue for a change. CA/Fatshark basically outsources part of their marketing to their players without any kind of reward. They are a business and we are not a charity. Well, at least I'm not. Nothing is free, especially labour or resources.
Makes sense.

On the other hand, what kind of effort or resource are you really expending? You click an ad and along what is possibly mb worth of information being exchanged as a result (downloading images etc.) you send a few more bytes which let them know somebody just produced a unique click.
If it really works that way it's basically like TV ratings. Are you gettng payed for enabling those?

If it came down to choosing whether FS gets to shave off marketing cost or VT1 & 2 server costs (which we don't really pay for either), I know which one I'd choose in this case.

The whole thing being anonymous is the key for me though.
Rocket Surgery (Banned) Jun 14 @ 10:53am 
holy♥♥♥♥♥♥we agree on something now... wtf.
Algol Jun 14 @ 10:59am 
Originally posted by Kumori^:
Originally posted by Algol:
I get why this is indeed funny, but I'd like to look at the serious side of this issue for a change. CA/Fatshark basically outsources part of their marketing to their players without any kind of reward. They are a business and we are not a charity. Well, at least I'm not. Nothing is free, especially labour or resources. They want our computers to help with their marketing - ask for our help and reward us if we agree, or GTFO. Because if there wasn't a backlash CA didn't think was worth it, what would they have done next? Install an actual spyware in their next game, because, you know, they can sell the data and they really need the money? It's a bit of an exaggeration, but it still bring the point across. Gamedevs these days are already lazy as they are, I don't want to add to that.
Depends... Would you say the same about marketing departments in other companies outside of the computer world? All of them are keeping track of their ads and how that fluctuates with the amount of products sold and customers they get. Which means they keep track of when you enter a store and what you buy and which ads where present.

I personally don't care if I use a product and it includes a ToS that says they can track the usage of it I think it's fair game. Any company anywhere have the right to track their business and their customers if you ask me.
And I personally 'do' care if this tracking method is a software on my computer. If I buy shoes in a store, they don't put a tracker in those shoes to see how much time I wear them. The key difference with your example outside the computer world is the computer world:) It's MY computer, MY property and I decide what software it will have. As I've said, they could have offered an in-game reward if you agree to install Red Shell, but instead they decided to do their marketing at your expense sneakily, like a real Skaven:) Even crappy MMOs give you some little present if you fill a questionaire or whatnot to help them with statistics/marketing.
Last edited by Algol; Jun 14 @ 11:00am
Rocket Surgery (Banned) Jun 14 @ 11:04am 
Originally posted by Algol:
Originally posted by Kumori^:
Depends... Would you say the same about marketing departments in other companies outside of the computer world? All of them are keeping track of their ads and how that fluctuates with the amount of products sold and customers they get. Which means they keep track of when you enter a store and what you buy and which ads where present.

I personally don't care if I use a product and it includes a ToS that says they can track the usage of it I think it's fair game. Any company anywhere have the right to track their business and their customers if you ask me.
And I personally 'do' care if this tracking method is a software on my computer. If I buy shoes in a store, they don't put a tracker in those shoes to see how much time I wear them. The key difference with your example outside the computer world is the computer world:) It's MY computer, MY property and I decide what software it will have. As I've said, they could have offered an in-game reward if you agree to install Red Shell, but instead they decided to do their marketing at your expense sneakily, like a real Skaven:) Even crappy MMOs give you some little present if you fill a questionaire or whatnot to help them with statistics/marketing.
have you talked to hedge about this?

it makes a lot of sense.
Algol Jun 14 @ 11:15am 
Originally posted by Yggdrasil:
Originally posted by Algol:
I get why this is indeed funny, but I'd like to look at the serious side of this issue for a change. CA/Fatshark basically outsources part of their marketing to their players without any kind of reward. They are a business and we are not a charity. Well, at least I'm not. Nothing is free, especially labour or resources.
Makes sense.

On the other hand, what kind of effort or resource are you really expending? You click an ad and along what is possibly mb worth of information being exchanged as a result (downloading images etc.) you send a few more bytes which let them know somebody just produced a unique click.
If it really works that way it's basically like TV ratings. Are you gettng payed for enabling those
I'm expending my bandwidth, Red Shell expends my RAM and drive space etc., and while this may seem trivial to your or me, it may not be trivial to some other people who a have crapton of background processes on their computers because they 'chose' to.

Again, for me it's a matter of principle. I can watch TV without enabling the ratings, but apparently I can't play V2 without enabling Redshell. If so, they should offer a reward and try to keep business practices ethical and transparent.
People did kinda agree for FatShark to use their computer for marketing purposes in the EULA.
Kumori^ Jun 14 @ 11:21am 
Originally posted by Algol:
Originally posted by Kumori^:
Depends... Would you say the same about marketing departments in other companies outside of the computer world? All of them are keeping track of their ads and how that fluctuates with the amount of products sold and customers they get. Which means they keep track of when you enter a store and what you buy and which ads where present.

I personally don't care if I use a product and it includes a ToS that says they can track the usage of it I think it's fair game. Any company anywhere have the right to track their business and their customers if you ask me.
And I personally 'do' care if this tracking method is a software on my computer. If I buy shoes in a store, they don't put a tracker in those shoes to see how much time I wear them. The key difference with your example outside the computer world is the computer world:) It's MY computer, MY property and I decide what software it will have. As I've said, they could have offered an in-game reward if you agree to install Red Shell, but instead they decided to do their marketing at your expense sneakily, like a real Skaven:) Even crappy MMOs give you some little present if you fill a questionaire or whatnot to help them with statistics/marketing.
Ofcourse you can decide what software it will have... but companies that provide software can also decide what software their products will have then it's up to you if you want to install it or not. Most software is a bundle of little softwares, no way around that. I didn't try to make this into a "I don't care thus no one should care" thing, we all are allowed to care about whatever we want. Thing is, everything gets tracked, computer or outside of it. Simply asked what the stance was on tracking usage of your own product was. Don't confuse this with me defending redshell in some way cause that's not my goal. Just wanted to get a clearer view on your stance.

People did kinda agree for FatShark to use their computer for marketing purposes in the EULA.

Also...this.
Last edited by Kumori^; Jun 14 @ 11:23am
Originally posted by Algol:
Again, for me it's a matter of principle. I can watch TV without enabling the ratings, but apparently I can't play V2 without enabling Redshell. If so, they should offer a reward and try to keep business practices ethical and transparent.
ehmm... no you can't. The moment your turn on your TV, your YV provider will track it and record it and what channel you are watching and for how long. and this is basically the same redshell is doing, except it is for VT2 related stuff instead only
Last edited by [Enso] Gummiel; Jun 14 @ 11:42am
Rocket Surgery (Banned) Jun 14 @ 12:20pm 
Originally posted by Algol:
Originally posted by Yggdrasil:
Makes sense.

On the other hand, what kind of effort or resource are you really expending? You click an ad and along what is possibly mb worth of information being exchanged as a result (downloading images etc.) you send a few more bytes which let them know somebody just produced a unique click.
If it really works that way it's basically like TV ratings. Are you gettng payed for enabling those
I'm expending my bandwidth, Red Shell expends my RAM and drive space etc., and while this may seem trivial to your or me, it may not be trivial to some other people who a have crapton of background processes on their computers because they 'chose' to.

Again, for me it's a matter of principle. I can watch TV without enabling the ratings, but apparently I can't play V2 without enabling Redshell. If so, they should offer a reward and try to keep business practices ethical and transparent.
yea im following this, its a mtter of good business pratices, and being ethical.

Naskoni Jun 14 @ 2:04pm 
Originally posted by BrutalBeast:
Originally posted by Naskoni:
I can see why you chose an ape for your avatar. Although to be perfectly honest apes, or at least some species, most definitely demontrate a significantly higher intelect, ha-ha-ha.
I can see why you answered with insults instead of arguments.

You really can't have it both ways. Either SteamID64 is personal information or it isn't.

If it is, you just spread personal information to third parties with your post.

If it isn't then all your claims about it and redshell are irrelevant.

Which I did several times already. Apes ask for more concrete information and arguments, I provide such, apes are too dumb or lazy to read anything thus simply reverberate the same brainfarts over and over as to feel some sort of comfort. Some of the apes, too dumb to understand anything provided, simply waited for another ape to share their brainfarts and feel comforted, and thus simply reaffirmed their beliefs in said brainfarts since stupidty finds comfort especially when shared.

CA is by far not the only one to drop Red Shell, and they'd be complete morons to formally admit that it broke any laws and they were aware of it in any way. Always a much safer bet to pretend it was by popular demand. If you weren't an ape you'd be able to google and find out who else suddenly decided it to drop it. I'm sure it was because all of them suddenly felt such heartfelt desire to please a bunch of clueless whiners on their forums, right?
Originally posted by Naskoni:
Which I did several times already. Apes ask for more concrete information and arguments, I provide such, apes are too dumb or lazy to read anything thus simply reverberate the same brainfarts over and over as to feel some sort of comfort. Some of the apes, too dumb to understand anything provided, simply waited for another ape to share their brainfarts and feel comforted, and thus simply reaffirmed their beliefs in said brainfarts since stupidty finds comfort especially when shared.

CA is by far not the only one to drop Red Shell, and they'd be complete morons to formally admit that it broke any laws and they were aware of it in any way. Always a much safer bet to pretend it was by popular demand. If you weren't an ape you'd be able to google and find out who else suddenly decided it to drop it. I'm sure it was because all of them suddenly felt such heartfelt desire to please a bunch of clueless whiners on their forums, right?
So you admit that SteamID64 is not personal information. Good to know.

The second paragraph is nice speculation with no evidence. You want to take them to court, go ahead.
Naskoni Jun 14 @ 5:36pm 
Originally posted by BrutalBeast:
Originally posted by Naskoni:
Which I did several times already. Apes ask for more concrete information and arguments, I provide such, apes are too dumb or lazy to read anything thus simply reverberate the same brainfarts over and over as to feel some sort of comfort. Some of the apes, too dumb to understand anything provided, simply waited for another ape to share their brainfarts and feel comforted, and thus simply reaffirmed their beliefs in said brainfarts since stupidty finds comfort especially when shared.

CA is by far not the only one to drop Red Shell, and they'd be complete morons to formally admit that it broke any laws and they were aware of it in any way. Always a much safer bet to pretend it was by popular demand. If you weren't an ape you'd be able to google and find out who else suddenly decided it to drop it. I'm sure it was because all of them suddenly felt such heartfelt desire to please a bunch of clueless whiners on their forums, right?
So you admit that SteamID64 is not personal information. Good to know.

The second paragraph is nice speculation with no evidence. You want to take them to court, go ahead.

You simply write random sentences when the feeling of stupidty overwhelms you or something?
Originally posted by Naskoni:
Originally posted by BrutalBeast:
So you admit that SteamID64 is not personal information. Good to know.

The second paragraph is nice speculation with no evidence. You want to take them to court, go ahead.

You simply write random sentences when the feeling of stupidty overwhelms you or something?
Is this what people call projecting?
A developer of this app has indicated that this post answers the original topic.
[Fatshark] Hedge  [developer] Jun 15 @ 5:50am 
Thank you for all your enthusiastic feedback on the matter of Red Shell. We can confirm we will be removing Red Shell in a future update.

Whilst it's a no more than a tool we can use to improve our marketing campaigns in the same way a browser cookie might (although even less 'invasive' than a browser cookie), we can also appreciate that this kind of mechanism is frowned upon by you, our fans, and whilst we'd love to be able to break down the very ins and outs of how it works and how safe it is, we're not Red Shell and cannot always answer your questions or concerns as effectively as you'd like. We apologise that you feel violated and will note in the patch notes exactly when the library is removed from the game, but know that before that time the library will be out of action.

Thank you all again, and may Sigmar guide you.
Last edited by [Fatshark] Hedge; Jun 15 @ 5:53am
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Date Posted: Jun 10 @ 9:29am
Posts: 607