The existance of Training Dummies

[Lederpeitsche]

Ive wondered why training dummies actually exist in the game since Ive read and noticed myself that they arent realiable at all.
Ive also read that they arent considered as actual enemies, instead ambient assets like doors/barrels - which is probably the reason why many aoe attacks arent working against them.

However, we have grey magic and fancy portals from Olesya and Ive wondered why we cant just spawn "illusions" of enemies with no AI and just showing their health pool and how much damage I do. That wouldnt break the lore, right?
Mods can already do that in general missions (Saw that in some yt videos, not publicity available yet).

Training dummies are either non-armored or armored. How much damage do I do against bosses, superarmor, etc.. no idea.
I also cant tell with dummies if I need 1 less hit to kill if I get appropriate stats - which is in my opinion the main information I want to know.

Currently I only use training dummies to cheat myself on top of the Keep and have fun in Krubers bed with them :P
They are kinda only there to offer the ability to get on usually impassable terrain, which wouldnt be the case with illusive enemies either.


Anyone finding that idea awful?

[Kumori^]

no, i would a sort of room where you can spawn enemy of your choice and test out things in a more controlled manner.

[What The Sigmar?]

Agreed. I recently got an item with that barrage trait and was annoyed that it didn't register on the dummies, or for that matter, why half of the attacks, such as DoT fire, doesn't register either.

Dummies seem to only be helpful in indicating "does X deal more damage than Y"

[Bones]

A room to fight enemies would be a lot harder to implement but I agree that It'd be much more useful. At this point if we could get a dummy for each combination of damage types (infantry, armored, monster and berzerker of skaven/chaos) that would be enough for most players.

[Frazzledragøn the Trustworthy]

I'd support a test room. It could be some type of reward.
* Maybe you get new enemies from chests (please don't do that in the current system, it's unreliable and bad)
* You could receive them for completing certain maps.
Warcamp unlocks Chaos Warriors, Athel Yenlui gives you a Slaverat to mistreat, etc.
* Or get them after killing a certain number of them. *shrug*

Anyway. In the test/training chamber there should several options for spawning enemies, you can turn each on and off, such as:
Attacking (selectable pattern)
Following/Moving
Invincible

You should also be able to see the debuffs on enemies.

[Algol]

Originally posted by Kumori^:

no, i would a sort of room where you can spawn enemy of your choice and test out things in a more controlled manner.

The Keep has prison cells. They should put some rats and Norscans in there.

[Shiggy Diggy]

They exist so you can carry them to the portal room to be smashed on, while that Brazilian with 500 ping is loading into your game.

[Dr. Stabbing Pain]

Originally posted by Algol:

Originally posted by Kumori^:

no, i would a sort of room where you can spawn enemy of your choice and test out things in a more controlled manner.

The Keep has prison cells. They should put some rats and Norscans in there.

The Prison is already occupied by Saltspire and he actually has a rat in there ... not alive though.

[Lederpeitsche]

Originally posted by Bones:

A room to fight enemies would be a lot harder to implement but I agree that It'd be much more useful. At this point if we could get a dummy for each combination of damage types (infantry, armored, monster and berzerker of skaven/chaos) that would be enough for most players.

Thats exactly the point why Im wondering Fatshark hasnt done it in the first place. I dont think its that much implementation effort. Mods have proofen that..
Maybe Im just preferring functionality over fancyness, but just place some stone obelisk like the thing in the Bridge of Shadows in the Training Grounds. The player can interact with it, which opens a menu showing the available enemies and I can place them somwhere within the range of the stone.
That would enable me to see everything and all attacks work because they are actual enemies.
Cleave, aoe, dots, hits to kill, ...

Making those illusions fancy and actually looking like illusions would need some more effort, yeah.

Originally posted by Frazzledragøn the Trustworthy:

I'd support a test room. It could be some type of reward.
* Maybe you get new enemies from chests (please don't do that in the current system, it's unreliable and bad)
* You could receive them for completing certain maps.
Warcamp unlocks Chaos Warriors, Athel Yenlui gives you a Slaverat to mistreat, etc.
* Or get them after killing a certain number of them. *shrug*

Havent thought about that yet. Like it a lot <3


Edit:

Originally posted by Dr. Stabbing Pain:

Originally posted by Algol:

The Keep has prison cells. They should put some rats and Norscans in there.

The Prison is already occupied by Saltspire and he actually has a rat in there ... not alive though.

Would be pretty funny to have some slaves there - adds more "life" to the Keep.
But I think it would break the lore as far as I can tell. Isnt the Keep somewhat protected by magic like the Inn in v1, which prevents Skaven actually entering (alive)?

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Kumori^:

no, i would a sort of room where you can spawn enemy of your choice and test out things in a more controlled manner.

Me too.

Dummies are useless except to gauge the numbers the weapons / ults do. Literally useless for everything else.

[Sykomyke]

How exactly are dummies useless? It's called relative comparisons. It's used when people don't have a direct way to measure the efficacy of something. So instead of comparing it directly, they compare the tools they have at their disposal (i.e. weapons) to each other. By comparing the tools against a training dummy, you can come up with some idea of the relative strengths/weakness' of each weapon.

I fail to see how this really differs from "illusion enemies" aside from the only unmeasurable stats which are cleave/stagger. And in order to measure that, you'd have to spawn a brace/group of enemies to determine that. All in all, it's far simpler to keep the existing system, and measure your capability ad-hoc in combat, by determining if the weapon lives up to the initial tests you do on the dummies.

I honestly, can't believe ya'll are complaining so much about literally the minutest thing in the game that has almost very little bearing. Jesus, how would you kids survive back in the 80's when games had NO "test sites" and no tutorials. Yea, imagine a game that didn't hold your precious little snowflake hands and actually made you think...

[Lederpeitsche]

Originally posted by Sykomyke:

How exactly are dummies useless? It's called relative comparisons. It's used when people don't have a direct way to measure the efficacy of something. So instead of comparing it directly, they compare the tools they have at their disposal (i.e. weapons) to each other. By comparing the tools against a training dummy, you can come up with some idea of the relative strengths/weakness' of each weapon.

I fail to see how this really differs from "illusion enemies" aside from the only unmeasurable stats which are cleave/stagger. And in order to measure that, you'd have to spawn a brace/group of enemies to determine that. All in all, it's far simpler to keep the existing system, and measure your capability ad-hoc in combat, by determining if the weapon lives up to the initial tests you do on the dummies.

A lot of problems with dummies has been stated already.
No information about enemy health pools/Hits to kill
Lot of attacks dont work at all
No information of other armor types than normal and armored
No cleave information
With the current system I find it way easier to just not use training dummies at all and just jump into a match.

Originally posted by Sykomyke:

I honestly, can't believe ya'll are complaining so much about literally the minutest thing in the game that has almost very little bearing. Jesus, how would you kids survive back in the 80's when games had NO "test sites" and no tutorials. Yea, imagine a game that didn't hold your precious little snowflake hands and actually made you think... :mac:

This thread is not supposed to be a complaint. I just wanted to mention a suggestion to improve, which is as far as I can tell, not a big deal to implement. And discuss about it.
I think youre a little exaggerating here.

[Biscuitkzh]

I mean, there's a lot of stuff you can't test on the dummies, that's true.
But I honestly don't think it's such a big deal. Like, I always thought they were there just for fun and giggles. I'm just gonna try how my new setup works in a match.