Locked and Loaded Penetration

[Sir Duckyweather]

I don't yet have Saltzpyre to 25, otherwise I'd test things for myself. I'd appreciate any input from those who are 25+ with Bounty Hunter experience.

Things I know:

• Base Locked and Loaded fires a single, high-damage shot with high penetration and accuracy from one barrel, and the other barrel fires several weaker pellets like a shotgun.
  
• Double-shotted eschews the pellets to fire two of the accurate bullets.
  
• Buckshot eschews the accurate bullets to fire two barrels of pellets.
  
• Double-shotted is typically better for single targets with high health such as bosses and the like, while Buckshot is favorable for clearing waves of "trash" enemies.

To be clear, this isn't a debate on which level 25 talent is the best to take or anything like that. All I wish to know is simply this: Do both the accurate bullets and the cone of pellets have good penetration, or only the former?

I've looked all over and it sounds like the accurate bullets can pierce through many enemies but there isn't much info on whether or not the pellets can as well, or if they are stopped after hitting 1 or 2 enemies. And of course the training dummies are worthless as usual.

Let me reiterate.

I only want to know if the pellet spray can pierce more than 1 or 2 enemies. I don't care which talent I "should" pick. I'm not looking for gameplay advice, only clarity for analytical study.

Thank you.

[Sir Duckyweather]

Anyone? Again, I'm merely curious if the shotgun spray has much in the way of penetration or if that's mainly just the single shot.

[Pink Eye]

Heh, you said 'Penetration'.

[Rui83DeathMetal]

Take the one that fires two iron balls in a straight line( don't remember the name) it's a no brainier. Less chance of friendly fire, high damage, high accuracy and works at long distance.

[Nick Vascuas]

The shotgun is objectively worse. You would be better off taking cooldown reduction to keep half and half.

Also the double single shot has better penetration.

[Laef]

Originally posted by BrokenClock:

Heh, you said 'Penetration'.

[Shiggy Diggy]

Benis in vagoo, hehehe benetration

[Sir Duckyweather]

Originally posted by Sir Duckyweather:

To be clear, this isn't a debate on which level 25 talent is the best to take or anything like that. All I wish to know is simply this: Do both the accurate bullets and the cone of pellets have good penetration, or only the former?

Wellp, looks like bold and underline weren't enough to get the point across. Guess I'll have to opt for Header as well.

[Sir Duckyweather]

Originally posted by Nick Vascuas:

Also the double single shot has better penetration.

Thank you for at least saying something relevant. Unfortunately I already figured that that had the better penetration of the two. Sorry, I probably didn't word the question as well as I could have. I'm more looking to know how well the pellet spray pierces in comparison. Not sure if that makes any sense.

[Faolchu]

People would actually be helpfull if your tone wasn't so annoying. Felt like i was in school again when i read the op.

[Sir Duckyweather]

Originally posted by Shinda:

People would actually be helpfull if your tone wasn't so annoying. Felt like i was in school again when i read the op.

Yeah, I realized it sounded a bit condescending after the fact, but that was the result of clearly stating what I was and was not asking, yet still people ignored the question and instead assumed what I had asked, despite being so specific. Well, that and all the immature comments about penetration. My tone wasn't so "annoying" before, but I got annoyed when bold and underline somehow weren't obvious enough to compensate for reading comprehension, hence the later edit to make my question obnoxiously clear. Considering I couldn't get a proper answer when it was nicely worded, I don't think tone is the problem.

[HeathensauceX]

I know this is a super old thread but I am sorta asking the same question but hoping for pure statistics. However, I've been doing a lot of testing and this is what I know:

The pierce on the double shot is pretty much infinite. This means it will pierce through an entire horde if you hit in a straight line as long as one thing isnt in the way: An armored enemy. A single armored enemy will pretty much eat the entire pierce, but without it, I am pretty sure you can pierce around 20 horde. I think it's around 3 armored at most and 1 armored will dramatically lower the pierce. This is in consideration of the base 600 power and no power boost. With the 2 hp per kill trait it will give you around full health if you do it right. However the 2 hp per crit does not work more than once due to crit nerf. (Crit works once per hit instead of per pierce.)

Buckshot however is very unappreciative. The damage buckshot does is HIGHER than double shot against unarmored. Yes. This is correct, its higher. But two things must be done.

First thing: Armored enemies must NOT be hit. Not only does it immediately eat all of its piercing abilities, it also does no damage as stated above. Hitting armored isn't everything. Volley Crossbow with Hunter trait and a correct use of your melee weapon like a two hand sword using pushblock attack does plenty damage. An entire crossbow volley ammo against most bosses if used correctly will literally halve almost any bosses or monsters health. If you have no ammo, you do around 20 damage per hit with the pushblock on the 2 hand sword. Which is nice. Not great but enough. I have high crit, crit damage, and swiftslayer so I do around 30 average per 1.5 seconds (Considering stamina regen and not having regen.) and may they pray they arent armored against me because they will die even faster. I do on average 60 damage per second with my sword which is insane. To give you an idea of the damage, the highest ult in the game is shade which does 500 damage. So in 10 seconds I will out damage a shade if the enemy is stunned that long which isnt hard with bombs and such.

On top of that if you use hunter correctly not only will you 3 hit every armored special and enemy apart from the Chaos warrior (5 hit) but your push strength is strong enough to knock them down due to 25 percent stronger power. (Yes hunter works with melee.) Also the volley will 1 shot literally all of them apart from chaos (2 shot if its in the face with both crits.) it even 1 shots tough oppoenents

Second thing: You must have conc and use it right. This means you need to wait until the horde is spread out, to give you an idea of the piercing it does, its endless. It hits per shot up to 8 times, that means it procs crit around 8 times if you have 2 health per crit. Thats 16 temp health on top of the insane temp health for kills. If you are low health, a single horde will give you full health if done right with a conc if things go badly and you have no ammo because of an armored boss. However, you can also even use it in a straight line and have the same pierce as a double shot. You however need to aim correctly.

The temp health it gives is insane for when you need it and you will almost always need it on legend and you pose absolutely no damage to being hit if you are doing it right.

And here is the damage stats: For me it does 38 damage 8 times and this is with 45 percent extra crit power, I could even have 65 percent if I wanted I just dont have the reroles right now. In all if done correctly it does 304 damage. Again, the highest ult in the game does 500 with shade. The second highest ult in the game is THIS ONE. Unlike shade, its versatile, usable against hordes for temp health and clearing and against anything unarmored as well.

Double shot at most does 196 damage for me, 98 damage times 2. That is 104 damage more than the double shot and my 2 hand does insane damage against it after that but the risk it poses is minimal if done right. Without headshot it does 34 damage times 8. That's 272 damage so its actually better to not headshot if you cannot do it safely.

Chaos spawn, blight reaper, troll, marauder, anything unarmored will be absolutely destroyed and it pierces EVERYTHING unarmored. Against the blightreaper, you can literally feel the chunk of HP it does. Smell it even.

Now if you are running a shade, between your ult and the shades without combat it will literally halve any monsters hp since on legend they have around 2k - 3k. Thats in all 1000 burst damage between the other 2 allies hitting it and your 2 ults. With conc it does double since you get ult again and with a shade with conc its literally around 1800 damage by the time the team hits it and you do damage to it. Only if its unarmored though.

Against armored with hunter, crit power, and all my ammo, I do in all around 700 damage. Thats almost half virtually all armored bosses HP on legend. With a shade with conc, it will almost always finish it off.

If things really go to ♥♥♥♥ and you have to use your volley against an armored like blightreaper between your ult, a conc, and all your volley ammo, you do and hold your panties because its about to get big: 2300 damage in all. This is assuming you dont miss. Thats literally 5/6 at least of the blightreapers health just by your damn self on legend. It will not live long.

And here is the best part. if somehow you can both get crit for hunter, and get crit for your ult, you do 25 percent more damage with your ult. This means a body shot will do 340 damage. With a headshot if you are a real pro (Even I cant pull this off almost at all.) it does 380 damage. This is only 120 damage off from a shades ult.

Now this ult is exceptionally powerful in my opinion and far better than double shot for random runs and runs with a good team that has armored piercing. Especially since all armored enemies have lower health than unarmored and also, your volley still does considerable damage. But its not even that that makes it so powerful in my opinion, its the fact that it refills your health to full as temp health per horde on legend which is extremely useful and makes you practically immortal.