"+ Crit Power" provides less of a bonus than "+ power vs X"

[Moffin Bovin]

i was testing out weapons on the dummies. I ended up testing weapons with no power bonus and swapping between 3 charms. 1 charm was +20% crit power and +10% vs monsters, the next was +10%vs armour and +9% vs chaos and the third was + power vs bezerkers and attack speed.

what i noticed was that, on critical hits, +20% crit power gave basically the same damage bonus as + 10% power vs amoured, plus or minus 0.25 damage (either way for each, it depended on the weapon).

testing with the shade's ult showed some weapons doing more damage with +crit power (instead of +power vs) with some attacks, but less damage with other attacks.

testing with ranger bardin showed him doing LESS damage with his ult with +20% crit power compared to +10% power vs armour on the armoured dummies and also when compared to +10% power vs infantry on the normal dummy (using a handgun).

As far as i can tell, +power on crit is a garbage stat on all but 2 classes and even then it seems to depend on the weapon. It does my head in why damage in this game is so convoluted. why isn't it just "+20% Crit damage" that gives you +20% crit damage?

[Johnny Horsedick]

+20 crit gives you power increase vs all targets

[Moffin Bovin]

Originally posted by Johnny Boy:

+20 crit gives you power increase vs all targets

yeah, but its only on crits and it often gives less of a damage bonus than +10% vs X despite being a supposed +20% power boost

[Frazzledragøn the Trustworthy]

If I am not mistaken, crits are double damage, right?
So, let's say you deal 100 damage + 10% = 110
A crit deals therefor 200 damage but +20% = 220
Boils down to exactly the same thing, except you don't crit often enough to make it worth it, in my opinion.

That's obviously just theory crafting, since you have different testing numbers, I guess this might not be accurate.

[Moffin Bovin]

Originally posted by Haxorzist:

If you use it with the infiltrate crit you get ~30% more dmg on it with 40% crit power.
Obvious op for op ranger veteran as well.

it literally does less damage than +power vs x wth the handgun. Eg. if you want to do more damage to monsters, then +10% damage vs monsters will give you more of a bonus to damage. If you want to do more damage to chaos warriors, then +10% damage vs chaos would literally give you more damage during your ult and would be more useful againt half the things in the game the rest of the time.

the point is...the bonus power that it says that it gives you is misleading, by alot.

[Haxorzist]

Originally posted by Frazzledragøn the Trustworthy:

If I am not mistaken, crits are double damage, right?
So, let's say you deal 100 damage + 10% = 110
A crit deals therefor 200 damage but +20% = 220
Boils down to exactly the same thing, except you don't crit often enough to make it worth it, in my opinion.

That's obviously just theory crafting, since you have different testing numbers, I guess this might not be accurate.

Unfortunately it's not that easy have a look at some older data mining: (didn't find any newer ones)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RDYFEJvotNAve7gcD7cj_dhukuxDK8BaDOAwpYtGlQc/edit#gid=1130245221

[Haxorzist]

Originally posted by MofineBovine:

Originally posted by Haxorzist:

If you use it with the infiltrate crit you get ~30% more dmg on it with 40% crit power.
Obvious op for op ranger veteran as well.

it literally does less damage than +power vs x wth the handgun. Eg. if you want to do more damage to monsters, then +10% damage vs monsters will give you more of a bonus to damage. If you want to do more damage to chaos warriors, then +10% damage vs chaos would literally give you more damage during your ult and would be more useful againt half the things in the game the rest of the time.

the point is...the bonus power that it says that it gives you is misleading, by alot.

Deleted my post because I only ever tried this with the shade so I was thinking about it and decided that 10% versus actually could be stronger for op veteran ranger.

[Moffin Bovin]

Originally posted by Frazzledragøn the Trustworthy:

If I am not mistaken, crits are double damage, right?
So, let's say you deal 100 damage + 10% = 110
A crit deals therefor 200 damage but +20% = 220
Boils down to exactly the same thing, except you don't crit often enough to make it worth it, in my opinion.

That's obviously just theory crafting, since you have different testing numbers, I guess this might not be accurate.

literally the numbers with a handgun on ranger bardin ult are:

11900 with no meaningful bonus on the normal dummy.
12600 with + 20% crit power
13100 with + 10% vs Infantry.

it makes no sense why +10% power > +20% power.

[Bones]

I have to ask: Did you get the keep set to legend first? I kind of wonder if there was power capping/scaling involved.

Past that, I wonder what sort of backend math is going on here. I wouldn't even bat an eye if you told me that the power bonus only applies to the crit increase and not the whole attack.

Originally posted by Haxorzist:

Originally posted by Frazzledragøn the Trustworthy:

If I am not mistaken, crits are double damage, right?
So, let's say you deal 100 damage + 10% = 110
A crit deals therefor 200 damage but +20% = 220
Boils down to exactly the same thing, except you don't crit often enough to make it worth it, in my opinion.

That's obviously just theory crafting, since you have different testing numbers, I guess this might not be accurate.

Unfortunately it's not that easy have a look at some older data mining: (didn't find any newer ones)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RDYFEJvotNAve7gcD7cj_dhukuxDK8BaDOAwpYtGlQc/edit#gid=1130245221

This is what I've been using, look under templates:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G0wbaIJIuo-QlAAMgVaui0PvV_gnVXzMUEjztSsGdXw/edit#gid=2112350316

[Zé Doje]

Critical Hits are broken. +X% Crit Power is broken. This game is broken.

For reference:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Vermintide/comments/87g16s/critical_hit_and_headshot_damage_explained/

TL:DR CRIT DAMAGE IS PURE GARBAGE DON'T USE IT.

[Haxorzist]

Hm I calculated that the actual crit improvement of the 2h (kerillian) for normal attacks goes up from 1.4 to 1.55 with 40%.

[Slurs! In the Discord]

Yeah Crit Power is a wasted slot. It's basically an item quality downgrade.

[Slowpork]

This weapon property can serve as a placeholder, until you get something decent. So it's not THAT bad.
Works great on Merc with an executioner sword or WHC.

[Moffin Bovin]

Originally posted by Z4-d093 ざどげ:

Critical Hits are broken. +X% Crit Power is broken. This game is broken.

For reference:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Vermintide/comments/87g16s/critical_hit_and_headshot_damage_explained/
.

jesus. I'd say i was surprised, but tbh, i'm not surprised anymore. No wonder. I honestly can't understand why they would make the damage system so needlessly complicated. There is barely over a dozen different enemies in the whole game.

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by Z4-d093 ざどげ:

Critical Hits are broken. +X% Crit Power is broken. This game is broken.

For reference:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Vermintide/comments/87g16s/critical_hit_and_headshot_damage_explained/

TL:DR CRIT DAMAGE IS PURE GARBAGE DON'T USE IT.

Its not garbage, it is just HIGHLY dependant on weapon you use and build you use.

But if you dont bother about things like "breakpoints", "threasholds" and "resulting kill count" and only care about PURE damage output - you wont find any use of crit power.

[Horoai]

Originally posted by Ardariel:

Originally posted by Z4-d093 ざどげ:

Critical Hits are broken. +X% Crit Power is broken. This game is broken.

For reference:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Vermintide/comments/87g16s/critical_hit_and_headshot_damage_explained/

TL:DR CRIT DAMAGE IS PURE GARBAGE DON'T USE IT.

Its not garbage, it is just HIGHLY dependant on weapon you use and build you use.

But if you dont bother about things like "breakpoints", "threasholds" and "resulting kill count" and only care about PURE damage output - you wont find any use of crit power.

This ♥♥♥♥ gives me a headache. :/

Why can't I just be happy I rolled crit power on a crit weapon and be done with it?
Why does it have to complicated, potentially buggy, dug up by the community and verfied every again every patch because they won't tell us about any changes?