How to use spear with handmaiden?

[Dionysus 🐭]

I really want to use her signature weapon, but it feels like spear is just useless compared to any other one of her weapons. I usually use sword and dagger with HM and it works pretty well, I just always feel like I am missing out on something and for that reason I want to use spear. Can someone give me some tips on how to play spear?

The main issue I have right now is with crowd control. I understand the shove attack > attack > attack > repeat with the spear is the best crowd control it has currently, but that attack pattern always takes too long (ends up with me usually getting hit a couple times) and relies on the shove, which isn't good because as soon as you shove enemies, the enemies behind just take their place (and end up hitting you in the middle of your attack).

Also, spear is supposed to be amazing at single target damage, yet that isn't my experience. The spear light attack has low damage compared to even the 1h sword, and yet it also has a low attack speed. The armored damage is also pretty low on the light attack (the charge attack isn't much better either), whereas 3 (not fully charged) heavy attacks with S&D or 2 heavy attacks with 1h sword can kill most Stormvermin on Legend. With spear, it takes 5 - 7 light hits to kill Stormvermin on Champion.

So how exactly am I supposed to play spear on higher difficulties? A lot of people say that it is the best weapon for HM, yet my experience it that it is the worst (or at least mid tier).

[DeMasked]

The Spear is a defensive weapon strong against hordes and defending your party.

Here is my current build that I am testing in Legend as I don't own Winds of Magic so I'm not sure how effective it would be in Cataclysm.

Spear: 2 Stamina, %30 Block Reduction
Ranged: Go for anything pretty much as you'll use it mostly against Specials or the odd elite/boss.
Necklace: 2 Stamina, 30% Block Reduction
Charm: 10% Chaos, 10% Infantry
Trinket: 30% Stamina Recovery, 33% Curse Resistance
Traits I haven't decided entirely on right now.

Key Talents
Tier 1 - Depends on your play style/traits. I use Temp Health on Kill + Passive Health Regen as I don't expect to take much damage.
Focused Spirit
Enhanced Power
Wraith Walk
Birch Stance
Bladedancer

Result is a tanky horde clearer. When dash is on cooldown after killing most infantry I usually alternate between dodging through enemies and using the shove attack as usually you will not get hit due to the dodge. Pretty easy to have least amount of damage taken, and sometimes highest damage / highest kills due to dashing through hordes (making the Beastmen Hordes less dangerous). Rely on your team to take out armored enemies/specials and you can aggro a lot of enemies and dodge around while blocking pretty easily allowing your team to take them out without having much to worry about.

I'm sure there are other builds that use the other level 30s. Using Bladedancer was merely an experiment after it was buffed from it's Update 2.0 crappy bleed damage.

[Dionysus 🐭]

Originally posted by DeMasked:

The Spear is a defensive weapon strong against hordes and defending your party.

Here is my current build that I am testing in Legend as I don't own Winds of Magic so I'm not sure how effective it would be in Cataclysm.

Spear: 2 Stamina, %30 Block Reduction
Ranged: Go for anything pretty much as you'll use it mostly against Specials or the odd elite/boss.
Necklace: 2 Stamina, 30% Block Reduction
Charm: 10% Chaos, 10% Infantry
Trinket: 30% Stamina Recovery, 33% Curse Resistance
Traits I haven't decided entirely on right now.

Key Talents
Tier 1 - Depends on your play style/traits. I use Temp Health on Kill + Passive Health Regen as I don't expect to take much damage.
Focused Spirit
Enhanced Power
Wraith Walk
Birch Stance
Bladedancer

Result is a tanky horde clearer. When dash is on cooldown after killing most infantry I usually alternate between dodging through enemies and using the shove attack as usually you will not get hit due to the dodge. Pretty easy to have least amount of damage taken, and sometimes highest damage / highest kills due to dashing through hordes (making the Beastmen Hordes less dangerous). Rely on your team to take out armored enemies/specials and you can aggro a lot of enemies and dodge around while blocking pretty easily allowing your team to take them out without having much to worry about.

I'm sure there are other builds that use the other level 30s. Using Bladedancer was merely an experiment after it was buffed from it's Update 2.0 crappy bleed damage.

How do you personally clear hordes though? Just spam light attack?

[DeMasked]

Originally posted by aaronth07:

How do you personally clear hordes though? Just spam light attack?

If there are no specials around you can just dash through a horde and kill them all with Bladedancer while holding dodge to maintain your defensive position. Then just dodge back to your team if there are enemies still around you and alternate between dodging and shove attacking as that combination should result in little to zero damage. When you have other team members fighting the same horde you can use heavy sweeping attacks once in awhile between blocking and shove attacking until a dash is up.

If there are elites just dodge back and tank the hits while poking when safe while the rest of your team takes them out. Or you can stay out and just dodge back and forth while blocking so their backs are turned towards your team.

It might take time to get used to but Bladedancer is pretty fun.

[Dionysus 🐭]

Originally posted by DeMasked:

Originally posted by aaronth07:

How do you personally clear hordes though? Just spam light attack?

If there are no specials around you can just dash through a horde and kill them all with Bladedancer while holding dodge to maintain your defensive position. Then just dodge back to your team if there are enemies still around you and alternate between dodging and shove attacking as that combination should result in little to zero damage. When you have other team members fighting the same horde you can use heavy sweeping attacks once in awhile between blocking and shove attacking until a dash is up.

If there are elites just dodge back and tank the hits while poking when safe while the rest of your team takes them out. Or you can stay out and just dodge back and forth while blocking so their backs are turned towards your team.

It might take time to get used to but Bladedancer is pretty fun.

I personally use the invis talent for the ult. I feel like the ult is better for escaping, sniping specials, reviving, etc. then attacking enemies.

[Deja Vu]

Spear IS amazing, but it requires a couple of tricks. They are easy to learn.

Anti-Horde: Push Attack, Light, Light. This will be a Sweep - Stab - Sweep. It's not as good as it used to be but it's still enough to keep hordes at bay. It's best on HM because she has enough stamina to never have to stop this combo.

Anti-Elite: Light, Heavy, repeat. This will be a double stab combo. Aim it at the face and you can sustain very high DPS levels. Is especially good vs bosses.

In general, you need to remember to use it's long reach! It's attack pattern is narrower then most weapons so it is easily overwhelmed by a horde if they get close enough to flank you. Either keep them pushed/stunned, dodge dance, or fight from the midline of your group and use your team mates as cover (aka poke over the dwarf's head!)

Lastly, headshot. Headshot, headshot. And headshot again. Cleave counts even with stab attacks, so with good aim, you can actually spear through a horde at head level and headshot several guys at once in one deadly skewer.

[Dionysus 🐭]

Originally posted by Deja Vu:

Spear IS amazing, but it requires a couple of tricks. They are easy to learn.

Anti-Horde: Push Attack, Light, Light. This will be a Sweep - Stab - Sweep. It's not as good as it used to be but it's still enough to keep hordes at bay. It's best on HM because she has enough stamina to never have to stop this combo.

That's what I have been doing, but as I said above, that attack pattern always takes too long (ends up with me usually getting hit a couple times) and relies on the shove, which isn't good because as soon as you shove enemies, the enemies behind just take their place (and end up hitting you in the middle of your attack).

Originally posted by Deja Vu:

Anti-Elite: Light, Heavy, repeat. This will be a double stab combo. Aim it at the face and you can sustain very high DPS levels. Is especially good vs bosses.

Now this I didn't know, but the straight comparisons of the damage in Armory (a mod) don't place the spear above most other weapons in pure DPS. I will however try that.

Originally posted by Deja Vu:

In general, you need to remember to use it's long reach! It's attack pattern is narrower then most weapons so it is easily overwhelmed by a horde if they get close enough to flank you. Either keep them pushed/stunned, dodge dance, or fight from the midline of your group and use your team mates as cover (aka poke over the dwarf's head!)

I think the long range is a problem most of the time. The enemies will obviously just move close to you, so you have to keep dodging backwards, which triggers lunging attacks from enemies. And not only is dodging to the side not possible most of the time, it's also not that effective when you are out in the open due to the spear's 15% dodge boost (which is not a lot). So you are stuck at close range mostly, which doesn't work well because the spear is supposed to be a mid range weapon.

Also, I have had issues where I literally hit through enemies because they are too close and the hit doesn't register. Seems like a vicious cycle.

Originally posted by Deja Vu:

Lastly, headshot. Headshot, headshot. And headshot again. Cleave counts even with stab attacks, so with good aim, you can actually spear through a horde at head level and headshot several guys at once in one deadly skewer.

Headshots are great with any weapon, but headshot spear vs headshots with most other kerillian weapons, spear still loses with DPS. The cleave is very nice though, and I have noticed killing two enemies with 1 stab attack, though I don't really see how that will help with a huge horde.

[Moffin Bovin]

push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack

heavy attack

push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack push attack

[Done25]

The point of spear+shield is that you can push your way into a group and take out the armored unit inside. It's like axe+shield.

[Dionysus 🐭]

Originally posted by Done25:

The point of spear+shield is that you can push your way into a group and take out the armored unit inside. It's like axe+shield.

I am not talking about the spear and shield.

[Done25]

Originally posted by aaronth07:

Originally posted by Done25:

The point of spear+shield is that you can push your way into a group and take out the armored unit inside. It's like axe+shield.

I am not talking about the spear and shield.

Oh, well the spear is a pretty weak weapon all around.

[CruelRumcajs]

"...SPEAR IS A PRETTY WEAK WEAPON ALL AROUND." - Thank you! Thank you for your opinion Mr. Done25. It was uber constructive! Are you some kind of a pro v2 player?

Just like DejaVu said! You need to aim for the head. Spear has very good attack speed! Also that range matters! Cause in V2 when u are closer to the enemy then u need to aim for headshot higher then enemy`s head is. When u keep them at range you can aim strictly at head.

For hordes yea sure its not a weapon for melting those. I think in that case flametrhower is a little bit better :P. But that is why u have these defensive stats. Use them. Spear has 15 increased dodge distance so when u add that to handmaidens passive u have 30% increased dodge distance.
During hordes u should focus on crowd control and sniping with that range elites.

Hope it will be little bit useful for you. Sorry if I let someone down with my poor english.

[Dionysus 🐭]

Originally posted by CruelRumcajs:

"...SPEAR IS A PRETTY WEAK WEAPON ALL AROUND." - Thank you! Thank you for your opinion Mr. Done25. It was uber constructive! Are you some kind of a pro v2 player?

Just like DejaVu said! You need to aim for the head. Spear has very good attack speed! Also that range matters! Cause in V2 when u are closer to the enemy then u need to aim for headshot higher then enemy`s head is. When u keep them at range you can aim strictly at head.

For hordes yea sure its not a weapon for melting those. I think in that case flametrhower is a little bit better :P. But that is why u have these defensive stats. Use them. Spear has 15 increased dodge distance so when u add that to handmaidens passive u have 30% increased dodge distance.
During hordes u should focus on crowd control and sniping with that range elites.

Hope it will be little bit useful for you. Sorry if I let someone down with my poor english.

I mean, no? Honestly, most of what you have said I have already responded to, so there is no reason to repeat myself. And also, no Kerillian class has a flamethrower.

That also is not how dodge works. Every weapon has a dodge bonus, so with the 15% dodge bonus you get from the spear, that is not calculated "after" the "normal" dodge since it is the "normal" dodge. With a weapon with 0% dodge bonus, you barely dodge at all (it's around equivalent to when you are out of effective dodge count). That is why shields are so bad at dodging (shields have a very low dodge bonus, usually 0% - 5%). For example, the spear has a 15% dodge bonus, the sword and dagger has a 25% dodge bonus, and the dual daggers has a 35% dodge bonus. That dodge "bonus" is what makes up your "normal" dodge range. Think of it as less of a bonus and more of your actual dodge range, before actual bonuses (such as HM's 15% dodge bonus passive) are applied.

[Catastrophy]

Stab their heads.

[Neptune Towers]

Adding to what others have said for attack patterns, I suggest stacking block cost reduction on her up to 90% and picking opportunist as trait for the weapon, together with maxing out your dodge distance to +35% (base bonus + talent). This way you can block forever, create as much space as needed with your push and have the mobility to outmaneuver hordes and reposition without using your cooldown, which you may need for a clutch revive or such.

She is an excellent support character with this setup that will carry the team through the hardest times. As for explicit indications about using spear, I'll keep it very simple and just say stab them in the face.

[Licher.Rus]

Aim heads.
If you can't do this and can't learn to - well, pick other weapons then.
No any build able to help here.