Why is Handmaiden considered to be a bad class?

[Dionysus 🐭]

The general opinion was that Handmaiden is considered to be a "bad" class, or at least not as good as the other Kerillian classes, and I really do not understand why. I tried her out a while ago to test her spear and shield, and didn't really like it and didn't think I was doing as much as I would be with the other Kerillian classes. Now that I decided to try Handmaiden out again, I can say that my opinion has completely changed, perhaps so much so that I think Handmaiden is the best Kerillian class, with the right weapon choice.

Her passive that gives you an extra 15% dodge distance is amazing, it basically means you can dodge dance around most things, though with the dodge nerf you still have to time it. Don't want to time it? Her level 20 talent "Shadowstep" has you covered! It increases the dodge even further, giving you an extra 20% dodge increase. This means that you can easily dodge anything in the game. All of the other level 20 talents are also really good, if you can live without the extremely far dodge after getting used to it.

But wait, if you want to spam dodge, the dodge count will stop you right? Wrong! That is where the weapon choice comes in. You might not have known this, but the sword for Kerillian has 100 effective dodge count. Most other weapons have 3 - 8 effective dodge count (the spear has 3 and dual daggers has 6). Effective dodge count is how many times you can dodge in a row before your dodge becomes useless (it becomes slower and doesn't go far). That means with the sword, you can dodge 100 times in a row before your dodge is useless. I have tested this personally, and it really does work that way. This might as well mean you have an infinite effective dodge count, since you will never dodge 100 times in a row in normal gameplay without a break.

Disclaimer: Most of my comparisons will be with DD (Dual Daggers) due to that being widely used now that the light attack damage has been buffed, and it was my main weapon on my previous Kerillian main, shade.

As a bonus, the sword has another 25% dodge bonus to speed and distance. That may sound like a lot, but it is fairly average for a medium weapon. In comparison; the spear has a 15% bonus and dual daggers have a 35% bonus. You also may be thinking that the standard sword isn't that great for attack compared to DD or S&D, but that is just incorrect. Sword has a much higher damage for the light attack than DD (who recently got the light attack damage buffed), with the sword doing 8 damage for the first 2 light attacks, and then 11 damage for the third light attack (DD 6.75 damage for all attacks, but the light attacks have an extra 10% crit chance and make the target bleed for extra damage). Of course the DD are faster, but not by much (DD is only faster by 0.10 - 0.15 seconds at most). For heavy attacks, I believe the sword has DD beat. All sword heavy do more damage to non armored enemies vs DD, and does much more damage to armored enemies vs DD, except the last one that does a bit lower damage to armored vs DD. The sword heavy attacks also take around the same time to charge as DD, but overall you get more DPS with sword heavy than you do with DD heavy (sword has 3 heavy attacks, speed is in this order: 0.31s 0.31s 0.38s and DD only has 2 heavy attacks, speed is in this order: 0.30s 0.50s). With the sword you also get +10% crit chance on heavy attacks, but on DD you don't (you only get bleed and +10% crit chance on light). There is also the fact that spear very widely used, but I won't get into very in-depth comparisons (though I will still compare it). Basically, spear has a bit more damage vs sword for light attacks, around the same damage vs sword for heavy attacks, and less damage to armored for heavy attacks, and the attack speed is much longer than the sword for any attack. It also does not have any extra crit chance for any attack, nor bleed, or any other extra effects.

Back to DD again, I do think DD wins for light attack DPS IF you have extra crit chance and attack speed, but the sword has many other bonuses that make it work using over DD, which I have listed above (except for block, which I go into below). Also, compared to DD and spear, the sword is much more versatile. With spear you have basically no crowd control forcing you to take Hagbane, with limits your ability to deal with specials quickly. With sword, you have good crowd control, you can take out armored very quickly because your charged attack does a large amount of damage to armored, and you can deal with specials very quickly with a charged longbow attack. The only thing you might have trouble with is monsters (or bosses), but you can let a teammate aggro them while you do a large amount damage with longbow. And if you do have to fight up close, because you got that talent which boosted your dodge range to 35% combined, and the sword which gives an extra 25% boost, you can dodge around every monster in the game pretty easily and chip down their health with light attacks (or if they're armored, you can charge a heavy > dodge > release heavy > dodge > repeat). Remember that sword has 100 effective dodge count, so you are basically never going to run out of effective dodge.

The only thing I haven't talked about here is blocking. Again, I will be comparing to DD, but spear is very good at blocking. It has 3 stamina shields (6 stamina) which is the same as sword, but it has a 180° effective block angle, whereas the sword only has a 90° effective block angle. Overall, spear is just better at blocking if built correctly, especially with Kerillian's level 25 talent "Birch Stance" (which reduces block cost by 30%), but the sword is still good at blocking. That talent combined with block cost reduction on the sword means you can block any attack, except unblockable attacks and attacks which break your stamina and push you away (both of which are mainly done by monsters). You will of course still have to be careful of the Stormvermin and Chaos Warrior overhead heavy attacks. DD has a block angle of 40°, which is very low. It also has an outer block cost modifier of 2.0x (as does the spear), whereas the sword has an outer block cost modifier of 1.5x. All 3 weapons (DD, spear, and sword) have an inner block cost modifier of 0.5x. This means that the sword is even better than the spear at blocking attacks that come from outside of your effective block angle, though the spear does have the larger effective block angle.

Another thing to keep in mind is pushing. Pushing has a cost of 2 stamina (1 stamina shield) which is not modified by properties like block cost reduction. If I remember correctly pushing can be more or less powerful based on the weapon, but I cannot find those stats to compare the weapons. However, pushing can do more damage than other weapons. Spear does the most damage when pushing, sword does the second most damage, and DD follows close behind. Also remember as Handmaiden, you have an "aura that increases stamina regeneration by 100%". This also applies to allies (though I haven't been able to test it personally), so it's just another great reason to pick Handmaiden over other Kerillian classes.

Here is my current setup with Handmaiden: 212221

Don't take that as a definite build, but I think it synergizes well with sword and longbow.

For the level 5 talent, Martial Blessing is the only way to go. All cleave temp HP has been nerfed to near uselessness and healshare is good, but it gives you no way to generate temp HP.

For the level 10 talent, I chose Focused Spirit because with Handmaiden you won't really be making a crit build like you would with Shade, but Oak Stance is good. Focused Spirit is a good power increase if you are good at not getting hit, and Asrai Grace is good if you are always near your allies, but if you aren't it's useless. In addition, the base cooldown of your ability is already so low (20 seconds after you stop moving from the ability), so you don't really need that talent at all.

For the level 15 talent, I chose enhanced power because sword doesn't have great stagger (average at best), and enhanced power can help you hit breakpoints easier, and keep in mind it also works with your ranged weapon. This doesn't mean that the sword won't stagger at all, it just means that you don't get as much of a bonus to stagger, but you hit your breakpoints for the sword and longbow easier, without having to sacrifice a necklace/charm/trinket property.

For the level 20 talent, every option here is really good and dependent on your playstyle. I personally chose Shadowstep because Shadowstep combined with Dance of Seasons (which is your passive) gives a 35% increase to dodge. This is great for dodge as dodge spam was heavily nerfed (the I-frames and amount of time it took for enemies to track you again were reduced massively, which made dodging extremely precise). This allows some leeway with dodging, making you not need to be host for it to be effective, or not needing extremely precise timing. If you do not plan to dodge a lot or you are host and are great at dodging at exactly the correct time, Wraith-Walk is another great pick. Wraith-Walk allows you to dodge through enemies, which is great for never getting trapped. Willow stance is also great, but less effective for the sword because we already have a high attack speed.

For the level 25 talent, I chose Birch Stance because you will not only be dodging, but also blocking, and this allows you to block nearly everything if you combine it with block cost reduction. Heart of Oak is also good, bringing my health up to 175 with Boon of Shallya, but the higher difficulty you go, the less health matters. Health lets you take more direct hits, but preferably you don't want to take any damage on higher difficulties, so Birch Stance is much more effective in that regard. And the extra ammo from Quiver of Plenty isn't exactly "bad", but you will only be using your longbow for specials and maybe monsters/bosses at times, and that doesn't require much ammunition. The only other time you will be using your longbow is if there are a large amount of armored enemies, but your heavy attack can kill armored enemies fast anyways.

For the level 30 talent, I went with Gift of Ladrielle because the 2 seconds of invisibility may not sound like much, but it can be used for many things. Attacking does not break the invisibility, so if you are trapped by a horde, you can use this to get halfway out and then just mash left click, and by the time your invisibility breaks, you're already out of the horde. Another example is if a rat gunner or warpfire thrower targets you, instead of hiding behind cover until they stop firing to shoot it, just use your ult and shoot it while invisible. It can also save you from a leech or assassin, and can get you out of gas before taking any damage. Bladedancer is good after the fix(it can kill most basic enemies), but you aren't going to be using your ability to attack because that will get you killed very fast (when does charging directly into enemies not get you killed). Power from Pain also has the same issue (you have to use your ability to attack and charge straight into enemies), except for the fact that it doesn't even kill enemies, so you end up charging at a group of enemies hoping to get a crit to kill the enemies before they surround and kill you.

Anyways, that is my wall of text/rant about why I think Handmaiden is the best Kerillian class (mainly based on the fact that it is good at everything, whereas the other Kerillian classes are amazing at a 1 thing, and average at everything else), with a good|bad (choose one) build thrown in.

Also, any feedback on the build is appreciated.

[LinkZeppeloyd]

The “general opinion” is that the best career in the game is bad?

Where did you encounter this general opinion

[Dionysus 🐭]

Originally posted by LinkZeppeloyd:

The “general opinion” is that the best career in the game is bad?

Where did you encounter this general opinion

You see it all over the forums, reddit, etc. when talking about Kerillian, or Handmaiden specifically. Is it not the general opinion that the other Kerillian classes are "better" than Handmaiden?

[Licher.Rus]

Well, you are killing stuff not with forum words, ykr?..

[Hermann|♠|]

I love this concept that gamers have been throwing around in games since the dawn of time. The concept of the best or the worst. Be it Class,weapon,skill whatever. There is a Right XYZ for the right situation. Either you use it right and it is a good choice or you use it wrong then it is a bad choice.

Best or worst class my ass HAHAHAHAHA!

[Dionysus 🐭]

Originally posted by SilverWF:

Well, you are killing stuff not with forum words, ykr?..

You mean you don't want to read my 2.1k word essay about why Handmaiden is the best Kerillian class?

[Deja Vu]

Who says it's bad?

It's basically the best class in the game right now in the right hands. Glaivemaiden can push/murder hordes, 1-hit most elites, longbow snipe specials, do amazing boss dps, has 150 HP, and the best mobility in the game. She can do every team role at the same time. Give that to someone who knows to dodge and time attacks and yeah, she's pretty much best in the game.

Wait, I mean she sucks. Shhh. Nobody else play her, I don't want to switch characters again.

[Rouwˣᴰ]

There is no bad class in this game. Every class has his strengths and weaknesses. But in my opinion, Waystalker and Shade are more effective than Handmaiden.

[Tanya]

Was my fav class, with the increased dodge distance + elven axe was amazin and really fun to play.

[LinkZeppeloyd]

Handmaiden is the best in the game even post nerf, I haven’t seen anyone say she’s bad in a very long time.

[DeMasked]

Worst class rhymes with latrine.

[Licher.Rus]

Originally posted by aaronth07:

Originally posted by SilverWF:

Well, you are killing stuff not with forum words, ykr?..

You mean you don't want to read my 2.1k word essay about why Handmaiden is the best Kerillian class?

Not me, sir - monsters wouldn't want to read this, not even talking, that they can't read at all...

[Dionysus 🐭]

Originally posted by DeMasked:

Worst class rhymes with latrine.

Which is that?

[Ghoul Hunter]

I won't say she's a bad class, she's quite balanced. But I will give you a comparison between Handmaiden and Waystalker.

Waystalker is capable of carrying a cata bot game by: Keeping specials at bay with ult, using infinite ammo hagsbane to shut down hordes and kill bosses quickly. That's so much a single character can do. Bosses are taken care of, hordes are taken care of, specials are taken care of.

Handmaiden: She can fight hordes with high stamina regen, but that's slow/weak compared to Hagsbane spam. She can expend all her ammo to kill a boss quickly. She doesn't have a strong mechanism for special control. She can pick people up easily, and potentially skip parts of the level, if everyone dies and the specials/bosses don't stop her.

Waystalker is an extremely powerful class right now, a very hard carry. Handmaiden is more or less balanced.

[CopperBack]

Handmaiden Bad? BAIT!!!

[James Howlette]

From what I've seen (I tend to play Saltz myself so this is mostly second hand info) Handmaiden seems well balanced and veratile, but shade and waystalker can both be absolute beasts in experienced hands.

I've seen a lot fewer "bad" HM players than either of the other two, but a good shade can delete bosses and a good waystalker trivializes specials.