AWP

[Kanarek]

What is your opinion on AWP (the sniper rifle from Counter-Strike: Source)? It's one of my favourites so far.

[Danny]

Oh heck no, it was OP in Counterstrike.

But in L4D I MUCH rather have a hunting rifle.

[Kanarek]

Originally posted by Danny:

Oh heck no, it was OP in Counterstrike.

But in L4D I MUCH rather have a hunting rifle.

My preferences are actually opposite, to my positive surprise. :)

I did use AWP in CSS but it wasn't either my particularly liked weapon (despite being very powerful), and it wasn't disliked in the slightest. I was just rather neutral to it because my aim was average at that time.

Now, as I play L4D2, I have a feeling it's OP in L4D2 because of damage, accuracy (quickly reaches full accuracy), mag size, and ammo count. Plus, it's not that hard to kill multiple zombies with a single shot. I just have developed a preference for this weapon right away.
In L4D2, AWP basically feels to me like a classic (bolt-action) rifle with full sniper rifle capabilities.

Same goes for the scout rifle from CSS. It has bigger mag and quick fire rate. And finally my aim is good enough to take proper advantage of precise weapons.

I like to carry a melee weapon to compliment for AWP's disadvantages.

Side note: I know that, for competitive purposes, AWP in CSS is truly OP. But that's the allure of a high risk, high reward weapon like this. Moreover, hunting rifle is a very good weapon too. I imagine it just lies somewhat outside of my likings because it doesn't focus aim that quickly but semi-automatic fire mode is a huge advantage. I'm just too much of a newbie to take advantage of that (yet). :)

[kurochama]

The increase of damage on awp doesn't add much compared to semi-auto snipers like hunting rifle & military sniper. If it's to incap a teammate on Expert, awp sure can do it in one shot . & in killing common infected, not only awp but all snipers can kill in one shot, as long as it's not "Headshot" mutation or Realism Expert. & in handling special infected, I think the semi-auto snipers have the upper hand. Awp has long delay after a shot, while semi-auto snipers can continue shooting. So if awp shot misses, the special infected has much bigger chance to get closer to the survivor until awp is ready to shoot again. But this won't happen on semi-auto sniper, as the continuous shots will give the special infected hard time in avoiding & getting closer, & unless the shooter really sucks, the special infected will most likely die before getting close enough to the survivor to use ability (with the exception of charger, as he's a mini tanker type with highest health among special infected).

So, in my opinion, unless someone has an excellent shooting skill to predict zombie's next directions of the movement & good at headshot, awp is less recommended compared to semi-auto snipers. But it's a different case if the damage is buffed via mods to make awp one-shot kill all special infected except charger.

[Mizu]

Originally posted by Kanarek:

What is your opinion on AWP (the sniper rifle from Counter-Strike: Source)? It's one of my favourites so far.

It's not the best weapon, no where near. Definitely deserves to be tier 2 because of long range/close range capability. However I don't really mind about it being bad. It's fun to use, probably the most fun weapon in the game because it doesn't trivialise all the difficulties in the game.

Correction by the way with what you said, the damage is only 115, the military and hunting do 90. Scout does 105. Whilst this is enough to one shot tongues and one shot spitters, the punishment for missing is dire. I will also add that all snipers have the same penetration stats, but the Scout, AWP and the hunting rifle have the same accuracy around, the military has the highest spread. But in scope mode they have 100% no matter what. Also I'd recommend to shoot shove with the bolt action snipers similar to the pump shotguns. I will also say, all of the CS weapons are nearly better then their counterparts. The sg552 is better then all the rifles apart from the ak47. The MP5 is still the worst SMG but not by too far. The scout is worst then the AWP and the knife is nearly the best melee weapon in the game.

I will lastly say, experiment with them. See what works. Find ways to benefit using them. Hopefully the stats help you with it.

[sʜᴀ]

I like the scout better

[Kanarek]

Originally posted by Mizu:

Originally posted by Kanarek:

What is your opinion on AWP (the sniper rifle from Counter-Strike: Source)? It's one of my favourites so far.

It's not the best weapon, no where near. Definitely deserves to be tier 2 because of long range/close range capability. However I don't really mind about it being bad. It's fun to use, probably the most fun weapon in the game because it doesn't trivialise all the difficulties in the game.

Correction by the way with what you said, the damage is only 115, the military and hunting do 90. Scout does 105. Whilst this is enough to one shot tongues and one shot spitters, the punishment for missing is dire. I will also add that all snipers have the same penetration stats, but the Scout, AWP and the hunting rifle have the same accuracy around, the military has the highest spread. But in scope mode they have 100% no matter what. Also I'd recommend to shoot shove with the bolt action snipers similar to the pump shotguns. I will also say, all of the CS weapons are nearly better then their counterparts. The sg552 is better then all the rifles apart from the ak47. The MP5 is still the worst SMG but not by too far. The scout is worst then the AWP and the knife is nearly the best melee weapon in the game.

I will lastly say, experiment with them. See what works. Find ways to benefit using them. Hopefully the stats help you with it.

Thank you for the reply! I have just experimented with hunting rifle and I think I'm improving because I found this weapon to be actually good for me, similarly to the scout rifle and AWP.

I followed the advice to experiment (just finished another campaign solo with bots) and I think I was given a sound advice to learn quickly. :)

Originally posted by kurochama:

The increase of damage on awp doesn't add much compared to semi-auto snipers like hunting rifle & military sniper. If it's to incap a teammate on Expert, awp sure can do it in one shot . & in killing common infected, not only awp but all snipers can kill in one shot, as long as it's not "Headshot" mutation or Realism Expert. & in handling special infected, I think the semi-auto snipers have the upper hand. Awp has long delay after a shot, while semi-auto snipers can continue shooting. So if awp shot misses, the special infected has much bigger chance to get closer to the survivor until awp is ready to shoot again. But this won't happen on semi-auto sniper, as the continuous shots will give the special infected hard time in avoiding & getting closer, & unless the shooter really sucks, the special infected will most likely die before getting close enough to the survivor to use ability (with the exception of charger, as he's a mini tanker type with highest health among special infected).

So, in my opinion, unless someone has an excellent shooting skill to predict zombie's next directions of the movement & good at headshot, awp is less recommended compared to semi-auto snipers. But it's a different case if the damage is buffed via mods to make awp one-shot kill all special infected except charger.

Thank you for reply too! I will keep this in mind. I'm still a newbie but I feel AWP is good practice for precision aiming.

[Kanarek]

Originally posted by sʜᴀ:

I like the scout better

Thank you too for reply!
I don't have enough playtime to compare AWP and the scout rifle. The scout rifle has its merits and I will experiment with all weapons to understand the game better. So far, I'm playing on Normal and the scout really seems like a more logical (reasonable) choice than AWP.

[๖ۣۜSixx༻]

Valve should buff the AWP

[bluefalcon74.ttv]

Does the same damage as any other sniper, but with a scope that is entirely useless on small maps and a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ RoF. I would rather have a pistol than the AWP

[sʜᴀ]

Originally posted by Kanarek:

Originally posted by sʜᴀ:

I like the scout better

Thank you too for reply!
I don't have enough playtime to compare AWP and the scout rifle. The scout rifle has its merits and I will experiment with all weapons to understand the game better. So far, I'm playing on Normal and the scout really seems like a more logical (reasonable) choice than AWP.

I only play Versus and the scout is the only reasonably logical choice

[geordiebroon58]

scout and awp should be T1 snipers if anything. that are they need insane buffs (which would just be a source of another bunch of problems) either way bolt action weapon in l4d2 just doesnt work on a fundimental level

so unlike other T2 weapons that work as an alternitive or even serves a different purpose the awp and scout are just downgrades that take up valuble weapon spawns and can easily be annoying to see be there instead of an actual sniper

[Bananoplatano]

he AWP in Left 4 Dead 2 stands out as a specialized weapon compared to the game's standard arsenal. Unlike the fast-firing assault rifles or versatile shotguns, the AWP demands precision and patience. Its high damage and pinpoint accuracy make it ideal for picking off Special Infected like Smokers, Boomers, or Chargers before they can close the distance. However, it falls short in crowd-control scenarios where weapons like the AK-47 or the Auto Shotgun excel.

In tight corridors or during frantic horde rushes, the AWP's slow bolt-action reload and small magazine size leave players vulnerable. By contrast, the rapid-fire SMG or the devastating spread of a Spas-12 are better suited for clearing groups of common infected. The AWP shines brightest in open areas where long sightlines allow players to take full advantage of its range and stopping power, turning the tide of battle with well-timed shots.

Ultimately, while the AWP offers a thrilling experience for those who prefer precision over chaos, it requires a strategic approach to maximize its potential. Balancing it with teammates wielding crowd-control weapons creates an effective and well-rounded team dynamic.

[geordiebroon58]

Originally posted by Kanarek:

Originally posted by Danny:

Oh heck no, it was OP in Counterstrike.

But in L4D I MUCH rather have a hunting rifle.

My preferences are actually opposite, to my positive surprise. :)

I did use AWP in CSS but it wasn't either my particularly liked weapon (despite being very powerful), and it wasn't disliked in the slightest. I was just rather neutral to it because my aim was average at that time.

Now, as I play L4D2, I have a feeling it's OP in L4D2 because of damage, accuracy (quickly reaches full accuracy), mag size, and ammo count. Plus, it's not that hard to kill multiple zombies with a single shot. I just have developed a preference for this weapon right away.
In L4D2, AWP basically feels to me like a classic (bolt-action) rifle with full sniper rifle capabilities.

Same goes for the scout rifle from CSS. It has bigger mag and quick fire rate. And finally my aim is good enough to take proper advantage of precise weapons.

I like to carry a melee weapon to compliment for AWP's disadvantages.

Side note: I know that, for competitive purposes, AWP in CSS is truly OP. But that's the allure of a high risk, high reward weapon like this. Moreover, hunting rifle is a very good weapon too. I imagine it just lies somewhat outside of my likings because it doesn't focus aim that quickly but semi-automatic fire mode is a huge advantage. I'm just too much of a newbie to take advantage of that (yet). :)

Opening Statement

don't get me wrong either im not saying you cant use the awp however the awp is a mediocre weapon that has the worst stats in the game making it not worth picking up

i wont bother going on about why its a good weapon in cs however i will bring up what makes the awp such a horrendous mess of a weapon

before i start bringing up the issues with the awp i want to make an performance comparison between the 4 snipers

Damage stats

let me just give some damage stats. the hunting rifle and military rifle deal 90 damage per shot where the scout deals 105 per shot and the awp does 115 per shot. with a head shot multiplier of 4 (this goes for everything besides shotgun pellets which have a 1.25 multiplier irrelevant here tho)

i will list all 4 snipers damage the Special infected name health and how meany body shots (bs) / head shots (hs) are required to kill

i chosen to display damage this way just to show the difference the damage makes on an individual basis as in most cases you especially with a sniper this will be the case

i have also chosen the tank hp to meet the standard of easy because it changes between game mode / difficulty so i need a consistent basis for health (and usage in a argument later)

hunting rifle / military rifle (90 share same damage):
boomer 50hp - bs 1 / hs 1
spitter 100hp - bs 2 / hs 1
smoker 250hp - bs 3 / hs 1
hunter 250hp - bs 3 / hs 1
jockey 325hp - bs 4 / hs 1
charger 600hp -bs 7 / hs 2
witch 1000hp - bs 12 / hs 3 (assuming witch take 4x damage on hs)
Tank 2000hp (easy difficulty) - bs 23 / hs NA (you cannot head shot the tank)

scout (105 damage):
boomer 50hp - bs 1 / hs 1
spitter 100hp - bs 1 / hs 1
smoker 250hp - bs 3 / hs 1
hunter 250hp - bs 3 / hs 1
jockey 325hp - bs 4 / hs 1
charger 600hp -bs 6 / hs 2
witch 1000hp - bs 10 / hs 3 (assuming witch take 4x damage on hs)
Tank 2000hp (easy difficulty) - bs 20 / hs NA (you cannot head shot the tank)

awp (115 damage):
boomer 50hp - bs 1 / hs 1
spitter 100hp - bs 1 / hs 1
smoker 250hp - bs 3 / hs 1
hunter 250hp - bs 3 / hs 1
jockey 325hp - bs 3 / hs 1
charger 600hp -bs 6 / hs 2
witch 1000hp - bs 9 / hs 3 (assuming witch take 4x damage on hs)
Tank 2000hp (easy difficulty) - bs 18 / hs NA (you cannot head shot the tank)

First Issue

assuming you land all your shots that is the extra damage per shot doesn't change anything until you are shooting a jockey with an awp this is only enough to negate 1 or 2 shots its not till the tank it cuts out several shots leaving a real impact

and while yes from a teamwork standpoint the extra damage does make a bit of a difference (meaning you don't need to deal the full 3 shots) however in most situations this wont be the case unless its a tank / witch as your teammates will be distracted with other things and diminishes the point of stat comparison since this logic would apply to everything

the problem here is that the extra damage has to come at a cost however the trade off has to be negligible enough that its worth while which is also part of the problem

Second issue

the fire rate up until now iv dismissed as a factor because i wanted to focus on how minor of an impact the awp does alone but now lets just show how devastating that fire rate is

the hunting rifle and military sniper deal 90 damage a shot they can shoot every 0.25 seconds giving them a damage per second (dps) of 360 to put into prospective this means you spend 1.5 seconds worth of time shooting a charger off your teammate (which has 600hp) and 5.5 seconds worth of shooting at a tank on easy (excluding reload time)

however the scout can only shoot every 0.9 seconds giving it a dps of 115.5 to put this into prospective it would take you 5 seconds to kill a charger, then amount of damage your teammate would take is just insane and a whopping 17.31 seconds worth of shooting on a easy difficulty tank

the awp can shoot ever 1 second giving it a dps of 115 and being a 0.5 dps difference i wont even bother calculating time to kill as its almost the exact same

i don't think i cant make it any more clear how devastating that cost of dps is 17 seconds to kill a tank on easy difficulty, i seriously hope iv actually calculated the time to kill wrong because that is just absurd. it really should not take that long to kill an easy tank as an individual player

actually i can make it more clear like this one even shocked me the single pistol that you start with on a fresh campaign has a dps of 175 (yea the single pistol has a higher dps than the awp) killing a charger in 3.4 seconds and an easy tank in 11.42 seconds (excluding reload time) which by all means should never be the case

the only saving grace is that i am excluding the reload time so the awp might actually kill a tank faster because you dont need to reload

actually done the maths so assuming you fully empty the mag a reload takes 2 seconds (apparently its 0.4 seconds longer to reload when empty) it takes 58 bullets which requires 4 reloads meaning it actually takes 19.42 seconds to kill due to the 8 seconds of reload time so yea the awp is slightly faster (on a easy tank that is) since you dont have to reload the awp guess thats one saving grace?

anyways when i mentioned the shots needed to land earlier guess what with the hunting rifle you miss one 0.25s oh no whatever ill just adjust my aim a little and shoot them again

but with the awp you need to wait 1 second this is enough to make you have to lead your next shot meaning you spend more time tracking wasting dps and a higher potential on missing shots making that upside redundant

the fire rate doesn't just impact how poorly you deal with the special infected either no it also impacts performance against a horde

Last Issue

the hunting rifle / military rifle are great against hordes in tight areas (or whenever a horde groups up) as your shots have piercing and will kill multiple common infected

however due to the slow fire rate of the awp and scout they are insufficient against hordes as they close the gap too quickly to pick off the horde and without a doubt will get you swarmed

so not only do you trade off fire rate (and in turn dps making it take longer to kill things) but you also diminish any efficiency against a horde which you yourself know is a massive drawback already considering you take a melee to counteract it

Conclusion

on paper its bad and in practice its even worse you wont have all the time to keep shooting the charger / tank and the time spent doing that is time spent for other teammates to tank damage or a special infected to sneak up on you or in versus case it even gives time to respawn

the weapon has a huge weakness for an almost completely redundant upside that will almost never come in play (only time i think the awp would out preform the other snipers is dealing with a spitter on dead centre final in vs as spitter like to hide somewhere and spit on the dropped cans to delay survivors so they might have enough time to avoid that 2nd shot needed to finish it off however this isn't a worth while reason for taking a weapon that is terrible at everything else

don't get me wrong as i said before i am not saying you cant pick up the awp and have fun using it but it is Anything but a good weapon it goes below F Tier where depending on what you are playing the hunting rifle and military sniper can be good (S tier in versus)

i also apologise for the rather long comment this was originally just meant to tell you the awp isn't all that good but i ended up going into some rant about how terrible the weapon stats actually are and decided to just format it properly than just accept i ended up wasting my time

however to say the awp is decent never mind it being op is just factually wrong its performance is just awful in left 4 dead and i got nothing to say about comparing it to counter strike besides its at least has a piratical purpose in counter strike

Sources i used for stats

damage stats - browsing the l4d wiki
reload speeds: https://www.reddit.com/r/l4d2/comments/zupe65/what_are_the_reload_times_for_guns_in_game/

[DoubleSalt]

i only use it because i love how it sounds

[sʜᴀ]

Geordie that's a lot of wording for a skill issue