Why do so many people hate the last stand?

[oceanicalex]

I just started playing the game a year ago so I dont really know what it was like before tls. I just dont know the reason why it seems to be so universally hated in the lfd2 community.

[Primal God]

There is not such thing as "universally hated in the L4D2 community" just a vocal minority that's all.
After TLS the game remained at Overwhelmingly positive reviews and saw a spike in playercount that lasts to this day. It was 15-20k daily, now it's like 30k+ daily last I checked.

EDIT: But to answer to your question. Some people was furious because their underaged anime mods wouldn't work (something that happens with any game that gets updated), other people were angry because they couldn't exploit some unfair and game breaking bugs to win the opposite team, and of course there were some reasonable complaints about some bugs, optimization problems, crashes etc etc that, as far as I know, they got fixed later.

The biggest, and only problem for me, is the implementation of CSS snipers. Such weapons cannot work in a game like L4D2 if they do not tweak them and almost completely change their purpose.
However, most of TLS do not even care anymore, there is like one dude working on some bug fixes, and that's all, so I guess CSS snipers will remain as they are.
Luckily we have Workshop fixes.

[geordiebroon58]

if you cant tell already this will be a long one but ill give a tl dr at the end

to really understand you need to know the Release version of TLS
-meany mods were (and probably still are) broken from an update and after it being 10 years since last update this just means they wont be fixed or patched out.

-controversial changes were made: cooldown on voice lines to prevent spam. no laughing and taunting in versus (still bugs me) CSS weapons being added. l4d1 infected models being added into l4d1 campaigns. unused laughs / voicelines still cant get over the snort laugh that ellis has now and for versus the spawn cooldown for infected was reduced by 10 seconds (and yes a lot if not all of this still remains)

-Everything that could be considerd an exploit got patched AND I MEAN EVERYTHING.
the parish chap 4 cracendo you move the float to get the platfrom to cross had a invisible wall till the platform stopped moving. the smallest thing that was an "exploit" got blocked This is what so meany people could be frustrated about

-a lot of issues behind the development of the update (toxicity related stuff)

-the campaign its self that the update was named after had meany balancing problems (every section of the map had max spawn rate of 30 commons so the entire map just felt like horde after horde. im not kidding the horde music kicked in because of it

doesnt help that the campaign was a rushed last 6 monthes remaining project despite being the Big thing the update hyped (TLS was originally a survival only map for l4d1 that was a none cannon depressing alt ending to death toll where they took a left instead of a right and end up at a lighthouse where they eventually parish hence the name)

when the entire update is hyped around this new campaign just for it to become a dissapointment and a half was going to lead to a lot of backlash

-there also wasnt even anything like the quick search having official only added at the time (which is broken now anyways) or the ability to change FOV


it didnt take them long to release a patch that inverted quite a few things were undone / replaced

some exploits remain in campaign while patched in versus for balancing reasons. they adjusted a lot of things with the last stand campaign

and not everything was bad some AI improvements were made and some additions ere made like small collisions to smoothen movement in some areas or for versus additional ladders were made for balancing

overall its better now than what it was before. besides things being forced on the player (l4d1 infected in l4d1 campaigns or changes to weapon models) its overall for the better really wish theyd undo that ellis laugh or the block on laugh / taunt in versus (voicelines were part of the fun)

but the ammount of problems it once had and even the controvercy behind the update being developed getting leaked didnt help any

and there is a fair amount of haters just being haters

the update was just a massive source of controvercy that lit a massive flame especially when "the update was for the community" was a survival update which is a mode most people dont even play (but as mentioned there are changes for versus etc as well) and the maneger of the community update (JAIZZ) was a survival player so seeing it survival focused made it look like selfish intents was behind it

if you put it in prospective to the long term players that loved the game for years this update really wasnt "for the community" but "for the survival playerbase" and the changes were ignorant to the people who didnt want it (when a lot of these things were mods / addons before) it was rather ignorant to the community

there was so meany different reasons for players to be upset on the release build it wasnt even funny. even if it was nitpicks its stuff the community loved / accepted for years and even something like Bhop (speed exploit) can be accepted as skill

TL:DR
TLS update on release was just way different and the ammount of changes no one asked for which was forced onto meany players really caused a lot of frustraition for the long term fans of the game

there was even more absurd stuff like overdoing the exploit patching or replacing weapon models that would leave people agitated and the development behind it wasnt any better

and with the update being hyped around a survival map for l4d1 getting its own campaign just to be a rushed project that was a last minute thought that had meany balancing issues would also lead to massive backlash

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit: to give a summory of the effort that could go into an essay heres what i have to say:

TLS update had way to much hype put into a community update, survival focused at that. when the update came out with meany contriversial changes or even problems that lead out to a massive backlash

some stuff got changed or inversed for redemption purposes and with a few additional patches added some nice changes (like finally being able to adjust FOV) but at that poin the damage was done

for an update offical or not to be done to a 10 year old valve game was a massive standard to meet which they could not and in turn upset meany

some fault is due to the hype and over expectency from a indie level of developers (workshop modders etc for this game) and some to the bad decisions made behind the update (patching exploits that shouldnt have been)

and at its current state? well its a side grade. an overall improvement id say but still a side grade that wont satisfy everyone regardless of what you do (that includes inverting the updates altogether)

[Shin Navideño]

The only ones complaining is a select few in the discussions threads making a fuss each day and crying about their favorite exploit getting patched and doing mental gymnastics as for why more content will kill this decade old game.

Go every other goddarn l4d2 community online and the only weirdos are the ones here that hate TLS update to their death.

Originally posted by geordiebroon58:

if you cant...

like this guy

[Sasha Pines (no brain)]

Originally posted by Projekt34 StepBro:

EDIT: But to answer to your question. Some people was furious because their underaged anime mods wouldn't work

me who still using the old model mods from 2010-2013 what ? i never seen it break once

[geordiebroon58]

Originally posted by Shin Navideño:

The only ones complaining is a select few in the discussions threads making a fuss each day and crying about their favorite exploit getting patched and doing mental gymnastics as for why more content will kill this decade old game.

Go every other goddarn l4d2 community online and the only weirdos are the ones here that hate TLS update to their death.

Originally posted by geordiebroon58:

if you cant...

like this guy

What do you mean "like this guy" Did you even read any part of my post? Not even the start where the update n release Was Actually Horrible? you know the fact im implying its changed since then?

or how i mentioned there was a lot of controversy behind the scenes when making the update (some old post got locked that contained info about it)

or the hype was a massie backlash?

and lets just ignore where i even say "and there is a fair amount of haters"

you just blindly assume that im on the l4d2 forums often whining about TLS or something when i am not i dont even play the game the same anymore

i answered the OP's question going into detail the meany confections or overall bad changes TLS had on release where a lot of the original backlash sourced from (before they inverted meany changes and adjusted things)

[16 TIMES THE MIN REQUIREMENTS!!!]

Couldn't even kill 14 a Year Old Game but check Back4Fraud Steam Traffic.

[**DeiRowtag]

last stand update is ok
last stand map is not ok

[England is not a real country]

I don´t really get the fuzz of the burning hatreed for a **community driven update**,

I mean some aspects of if are meh like for example the last stand map that kinda sucks to play and also the neglected and terribly balanced counter-strike weapons,

Other then that,is a "fine" update for a game that has been rejected by is own creator for many years...

[King Of Lolis]

L4d2 are brain dead thinking game changed a lot cuz of the update lmfao
Only thing they did was added more weapons mostly cs and a new map which sucks cuz it has generators and gas cans which nobody likes

[geordiebroon58]

Originally posted by Autistic Ellis:

I don´t really get the fuzz of the burning hatreed for a **community driven update**,

I mean some aspects of if are meh like for example the last stand map that kinda sucks to play and also the neglected and terribly balanced counter-strike weapons,

Other then that,is a "fine" update for a game that has been rejected by is own creator for many years...

for it to be a community driven update the update has to be there for the community adding QOL features patching some broken exploits. which despite being survival focused (hardly the community plays that mode) there was things like that added

not be a controversial addition forced onto the game regardless if people want or not

when they changed up things like weapon models or even replacing the revive animation for the l4d2 survivors people who played the game 5 years before the update wont exactly be happy

while parts of it is community driven other parts is just to improve survival (ironically the leader of the update JAIZ was a survival player HMMM Wonder why its focused on survival)

[**DeiRowtag]

Originally posted by geordiebroon58:

Originally posted by Autistic Ellis:

I don´t really get the fuzz of the burning hatreed for a **community driven update**,

I mean some aspects of if are meh like for example the last stand map that kinda sucks to play and also the neglected and terribly balanced counter-strike weapons,

Other then that,is a "fine" update for a game that has been rejected by is own creator for many years...

for it to be a community driven update the update has to be there for the community adding QOL features patching some broken exploits. which despite being survival focused (hardly the community plays that mode) there was things like that added

not be a controversial addition forced onto the game regardless if people want or not

when they changed up things like weapon models or even replacing the revive animation for the l4d2 survivors people who played the game 5 years before the update wont exactly be happy

while parts of it is community driven other parts is just to improve survival (ironically the leader of the update JAIZ was a survival player HMMM Wonder why its focused on survival)

Yeah on that part i can agree it's "first what the team want" (not only jaiz) and secondly let's add stuff the community complain about

[Shin Navideño]

Originally posted by Autistic Ellis:

I don´t really get the fuzz of the burning hatreed for a **community driven update**,

I mean some aspects of if are meh like for example the last stand map that kinda sucks to play and also the neglected and terribly balanced counter-strike weapons,

Other then that,is a "fine" update for a game that has been rejected by is own creator for many years...

More content is always nice but what do you expect from a community circlejerking for a literal decade?
Quick reminder this community tried to boycott l4d2 and some people unironically stay in l4d1 because they are incapable of dealing with jockeys. Im not joking.

[Zadkiel]

Originally posted by geordiebroon58:

Originally posted by Autistic Ellis:

I don´t really get the fuzz of the burning hatreed for a **community driven update**,

I mean some aspects of if are meh like for example the last stand map that kinda sucks to play and also the neglected and terribly balanced counter-strike weapons,

Other then that,is a "fine" update for a game that has been rejected by is own creator for many years...

for it to be a community driven update the update has to be there for the community adding QOL features patching some broken exploits. which despite being survival focused (hardly the community plays that mode) there was things like that added

not be a controversial addition forced onto the game regardless if people want or not

when they changed up things like weapon models or even replacing the revive animation for the l4d2 survivors people who played the game 5 years before the update wont exactly be happy

while parts of it is community driven other parts is just to improve survival (ironically the leader of the update JAIZ was a survival player HMMM Wonder why its focused on survival)

I don't get why its a big deal when the survivors have something unique about them when Zoey was the one who started it from the beginning. Valve in their commantary wanted the L4D2 survivors to stand out more compared to the first group but because of the rushed development they were only able to accomplish certain things for the characters that did not turn out so well.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2500255117&searchtext=Coach+animations+pre+tls

[ЛЕЖЕБОКЕР]

Originally posted by geordiebroon58:

if you cant tell already this will be a long one but ill give a tl dr at the end

to really understand you need to know the Release version of TLS
-meany mods were (and probably still are) broken from an update and after it being 10 years since last update this just means they wont be fixed or patched out.

-controversial changes were made: cooldown on voice lines to prevent spam. no laughing and taunting in versus (still bugs me) CSS weapons being added. l4d1 infected models being added into l4d1 campaigns. unused laughs / voicelines still cant get over the snort laugh that ellis has now and for versus the spawn cooldown for infected was reduced by 10 seconds (and yes a lot if not all of this still remains)

-Everything that could be considerd an exploit got patched AND I MEAN EVERYTHING.
the parish chap 4 cracendo you move the float to get the platfrom to cross had a invisible wall till the platform stopped moving. the smallest thing that was an "exploit" got blocked This is what so meany people could be frustrated about

-a lot of issues behind the development of the update (toxicity related stuff)

-the campaign its self that the update was named after had meany balancing problems (every section of the map had max spawn rate of 30 commons so the entire map just felt like horde after horde. im not kidding the horde music kicked in because of it

doesnt help that the campaign was a rushed last 6 monthes remaining project despite being the Big thing the update hyped (TLS was originally a survival only map for l4d1 that was a none cannon depressing alt ending to death toll where they took a left instead of a right and end up at a lighthouse where they eventually parish hence the name)

when the entire update is hyped around this new campaign just for it to become a dissapointment and a half was going to lead to a lot of backlash

-there also wasnt even anything like the quick search having official only added at the time (which is broken now anyways) or the ability to change FOV


it didnt take them long to release a patch that inverted quite a few things were undone / replaced

some exploits remain in campaign while patched in versus for balancing reasons. they adjusted a lot of things with the last stand campaign

and not everything was bad some AI improvements were made and some additions ere made like small collisions to smoothen movement in some areas or for versus additional ladders were made for balancing

overall its better now than what it was before. besides things being forced on the player (l4d1 infected in l4d1 campaigns or changes to weapon models) its overall for the better really wish theyd undo that ellis laugh or the block on laugh / taunt in versus (voicelines were part of the fun)

but the ammount of problems it once had and even the controvercy behind the update being developed getting leaked didnt help any

and there is a fair amount of haters just being haters

the update was just a massive source of controvercy that lit a massive flame especially when "the update was for the community" was a survival update which is a mode most people dont even play (but as mentioned there are changes for versus etc as well) and the maneger of the community update (JAIZZ) was a survival player so seeing it survival focused made it look like selfish intents was behind it

if you put it in prospective to the long term players that loved the game for years this update really wasnt "for the community" but "for the survival playerbase" and the changes were ignorant to the people who didnt want it (when a lot of these things were mods / addons before) it was rather ignorant to the community

there was so meany different reasons for players to be upset on the release build it wasnt even funny. even if it was nitpicks its stuff the community loved / accepted for years and even something like Bhop (speed exploit) can be accepted as skill

TL:DR
TLS update on release was just way different and the ammount of changes no one asked for which was forced onto meany players really caused a lot of frustraition for the long term fans of the game

there was even more absurd stuff like overdoing the exploit patching or replacing weapon models that would leave people agitated and the development behind it wasnt any better

and with the update being hyped around a survival map for l4d1 getting its own campaign just to be a rushed project that was a last minute thought that had meany balancing issues would also lead to massive backlash

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit: to give a summory of the effort that could go into an essay heres what i have to say:

TLS update had way to much hype put into a community update, survival focused at that. when the update came out with meany contriversial changes or even problems that lead out to a massive backlash

some stuff got changed or inversed for redemption purposes and with a few additional patches added some nice changes (like finally being able to adjust FOV) but at that poin the damage was done

for an update offical or not to be done to a 10 year old valve game was a massive standard to meet which they could not and in turn upset meany

some fault is due to the hype and over expectency from a indie level of developers (workshop modders etc for this game) and some to the bad decisions made behind the update (patching exploits that shouldnt have been)

and at its current state? well its a side grade. an overall improvement id say but still a side grade that wont satisfy everyone regardless of what you do (that includes inverting the updates altogether)

Мне ♥♥♥♥♥

[Zadkiel]

Originally posted by Jimmy Rustles:

I will take a stab at it:

The game has aged with many bugs and tricks over the years that were never fixed, and so they were generally accepted as part of the game. Many of these are fun and harmless, or generally accepted as how the physics work in the game, and they were "fixed" in that update, which upset a lot of people who saw them as things that defined l4d2. (While a lot of bugs people wish got fixed were ignored)

- Disabling workshop addons for some game modes due to a few cheat ones was like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There are thousands of fun addons of custom sounds/models/etc., that we can't use anymore unless we host our own server. (With campaign mode being the exception).

- Addition of useless/weaker weapons, like pitchfork/shovel, awp/scout guns.

- Breaking many workshop mods that are a decade old, many of which have been abandoned by their author, and lost forever if they are not fixed by someone who knows how.

- The criticisms were taken personally. It became immature "high school politics", where if you weren't 100% complimenting all the changes, you were kicked out of groups/channels/forums seen as a "hater/troll" who unappreciates all their hard work.

- Changes were forced while ignoring community input or feedback. It is ironic, since the team working on last stand was rather vocal about a certain person making a malicious addon that also "fixed" things the author wanted to, but nobody else asked for or wanted. Partly valve's fault for allowing addons to have too much control over the game's files, and not handling abuse reports for addons that break the game.

They did a lot of hard work with the last stand update, and many good things came out of it too, however, the way the whole thing was handled with an iron fist, which overshadowed a lot of the good things, and community largely resented it.

I hope that helps.

Workshop mods were disabled in 2018 by Valve, nothing to do with TLS.