Hit detection is horrible

[Malevolent ▲]

I haven't touched this game for 2 months, came back yesterday and my god the hit detection is awful. Using a melee on a server with a good ping(55) it's like my every strike passes through the zombies, shoving is also like that. It's pretty much impossible to use the weapons as efficiently as before. Is anyone else experiencing this?

[s10055072]

Escrito originalmente por -EAT3N-:

Escrito originalmente por s10055072:

Please prove it by record a video, remember to make sure your game is 100% vanilla (not alter by some random mods), and turn on other useful info such as net_graph.

Don't blame everything on TLS update UNLESS there are direct evidence.

How is he supposed to go back and get video of him playing pre-update to compare with post-update, genius?

I am NOT asking comparison video, just record a video to show so-called "bad hitreg".

But with my own experience on Public Campaign Game so far (and yes, I got ping around 70~90) I can tell you hitreg is pretty much the same

[Sonya]

Escrito originalmente por -EAT3N-:

Escrito originalmente por ♡ Princess Cadance ♡:

On topic: bad hitreg is Sources' trademark.

Like Malevolent said, the hitreg was never this bad. I'll fully agree that things were never perfect, i'm fairly certain the game designers game the starting pistols unlimited ammo precisely for spamming purposes because aiming and trying to hit with them sucks; you'd think hovering the cursor over the head of a zombie at medium range would be an easy headshot...nope. The Deagle is better, but still ain't perfect. BUT...things are way worse now. I use the shotguns a lot because they're fun and more of a challenge than the Ak (which i also love) and coming back post-Update i noticed that far more often i'd have to double-tap zombies because i didn't shoot them enough to kill them. I never had that problem before. It's the same with melee.

1) what you said about the ammo is completely retarded, Im sorry. Its unlimited because it's a secondary weapon and you're not supposed to ever be left defenseless in this fast paced zombie shooter, no other reason.
2) you're confusing hitreg with weapon accuracy, non of the pistols are 100% accurate and its intended, headshotting with pistols at medium range is not reliable unless you crouch, same with firing deagle while moving. Like jeez, are you gonna say that snipers have bad hitreg, but it suddenly becomes good once you grab lasers? All hitscan weapons are coded the same way. You're either delusional, or havent played the game recently pre-update and got rusty.

I've been playing the game every other day before and after the update, coop expert realism (lots of headshots), and I can assure you the hitscan weapons are working the same and so do the mellees.
The only thing that felt different are the l4d1 zombie models(and even then, I think some of their animations just mess with my muscle memory, and it has nothing to do with the hitboxes)

Nothing is changed about the hitreg. You can boot a previous version of the game using the tool speedrunners use and test it for yourself.

[Psy]

I'm honestly confused by threads that report the supposed changes in hitboxes and hit registration post-TLS update. I play Expert with my friends every weekend, with some getting 90-120 ping on average, and we haven't noticed any differences with the hitboxes and hit registration at all. I think the mixed feelings about the TLS update has caused some kind of placebo effect on multiple people.

[Malevolent ▲]

Escrito originalmente por s10055072:

Escrito originalmente por Malevolent ▲:

But it was never this bad before, before maybe 1 out of 10 hits wouldn't register, now it's like every single hit won't connect with the enemy. Melee's are useless rn.

Please prove it by record a video, remember to make sure your game is 100% vanilla (not alter by some random mods), and turn on other useful info such as net_graph.

Don't blame everything on TLS update UNLESS there are direct evidence.

I'll make sure to do that next time it happens. Only mods I'm running are a vocalizer, some weapon skins, tho the skins in question aren't on melee's but only on actual guns and a different tank theme. In my post and in all of my replies, where exactly do you see that I'm blaming the hit detection on the TLS team? I'm not blaming them for anything, get your head out of your a$$.

The hit detection wasn't this atrocious when the update first launched, but probably worsened by an update in the past month or two when I haven't played the game. Did Valve issue and update or did they, idk, I'm not pointing fingers here.

[s10055072]

Escrito originalmente por Malevolent ▲:

Escrito originalmente por s10055072:

Please prove it by record a video, remember to make sure your game is 100% vanilla (not alter by some random mods), and turn on other useful info such as net_graph.

Don't blame everything on TLS update UNLESS there are direct evidence.

I'll make sure to do that next time it happens. Only mods I'm running are a vocalizer, some weapon skins, tho the skins in question aren't on melee's but only on actual guns and a different tank theme. In my post and in all of my replies, where exactly do you see that I'm blaming the hit detection on the TLS team? I'm not blaming them for anything, get your head out of your a$$.

The hit detection wasn't this atrocious when the update first launched, but probably worsened by an update in the past month or two when I haven't played the game. Did Valve issue and update or did they, idk, I'm not pointing fingers here.

My bad, because I saw someone else saying update cause the issue on this thread (Just look it up).

Anyway, with the video, someone with the proper knowledge can point out what's going on, text description often tend to be vague.

[XanDer-XTX]

Shoving seems more effective than using melee, even with acceptable ping. Hit detection is tacky sometimes. It happened before the TLS update. Not a new thing.

[Sharpie The Dragon]

Escrito originalmente por ♥:

Like, it's literally the same system as any other source game - mellees have lag compensation, but they also have this weird trick, where they hit detect before the actual hit in the animation? Valve made it that way so that there wasn't too big of a visual delay between hitting something and seeing the reaction (because ping+lerp), but that also means that some amount of extrapolation is involved in hit detection, which is never 100% accurate. (just watch another player chop zombies - they actually die slightly before the hit visually connects)

You don't even need the animation to register the hit. Melee was very poorly implemented that it didn't account for users switching to another weapon. The only thing I think the update team did in regards to melee botching was their own design with Pitchfork and the major nerf of the knife. Pitchfork can't hit anything from one feet away without having a failure rate that is unacceptable or the knife that now acts like a nightstick but can slice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyhg_ri26ks

You can even script it if you want to be scummy.

[Sonya]

well, the animation is just the visual feedback, the actual hitreg just has it's own timing and I was pointing out that it's purposely made not to sync with the animation.

and yeah, I've seen people abuse this glitch. To be fair, it might actually be logically impossible to prevent weapon switching after the swing without actually introducing any artificial delays for it. (Because on your screen you finished the animation and expect weapon switching to be available, even though you're still swinging server-side). But the fact that it actually resets your swing cooldown after the switch is definetely a huge oversight.

I'm not sure specifically why the pitchfork is so terrible, didn't bother to look at it's hitrays or anything, but with the knife - it seems that they changed it's ray patterns (on top of the -10% attack speed).

Knife used to swing in a perfect horizontal line (the best pattern), now it does a really low diagonal swing. The problem is that lowered hitrays (on any melee) give you less range and (for some reason) actually thin out when you aim lower? Meaning that, despite all the weapons technically having the same range, the knife is actually shorter unless you aim perfectly straight or up.

[FireWolfBoy]

Escrito originalmente por ♥:

I'm honestly glad to see there are at least some sane people in this thread acknowledging that the mellee issues are nothing new, and it didn't "get worse" and it couldn't even possibly get worse with the tools the devs had.

Like, it's literally the same system as any other source game - mellees have lag compensation, but they also have this weird trick, where they hit detect before the actual hit in the animation? Valve made it that way so that there wasn't too big of a visual delay between hitting something and seeing the reaction (because ping+lerp), but that also means that some amount of extrapolation is involved in hit detection, which is never 100% accurate. (just watch another player chop zombies - they actually die slightly before the hit visually connects)

All source games do mellees like this (well, at least both tf2 and l4d2 from my experience), and that's exactly why hits can miss sometimes due to too detailed movement or high speeds. I'm not sure if you even could mess that up more if you wanted, because it's not really a bug - more like the intended tradeoff, because it would be EVEN WORSE if valve didn't implement this trick.

This.

Coming from someone who goes melee-only every now and then, it’s still the same lol.

[Yu Ryujin]

There is certainly some hit registering issues since TLS, but... Ive not seen something that weird with melee. Shoving nonetheless, and I frames from commons because of weird animations or whatever, microlag with good ping that also messes with the hit regis, etc...

Those issues are real and happens only since TLS. might be a multiplayer only issue.

[༄ˡᵛ᭄✿ᴋᴀᴡᴀɪɪ]

Escrito originalmente por Sharpie The Dergun:

Escrito originalmente por ♥:

Like, it's literally the same system as any other source game - mellees have lag compensation, but they also have this weird trick, where they hit detect before the actual hit in the animation? Valve made it that way so that there wasn't too big of a visual delay between hitting something and seeing the reaction (because ping+lerp), but that also means that some amount of extrapolation is involved in hit detection, which is never 100% accurate. (just watch another player chop zombies - they actually die slightly before the hit visually connects)

You don't even need the animation to register the hit. Melee was very poorly implemented that it didn't account for users switching to another weapon. The only thing I think the update team did in regards to melee botching was their own design with Pitchfork and the major nerf of the knife. Pitchfork can't hit anything from one feet away without having a failure rate that is unacceptable or the knife that now acts like a nightstick but can slice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyhg_ri26ks

You can even script it if you want to be scummy.

Respectfully disagree.

[muddy]

Escrito originalmente por Old Gregg:

you think hit detection is bad.. try with one of the new melee's it's friggin awful

I could not agree with you anymore, imo the pitch fork has to be the absolute worst melee weapon, u get hit by every other zombie.

[However]

Not sure if related, but when I am able to parry Jockey's ride attack, he still somehow manages to take a cheap shot swing at me.

[urrs | floppa sandia xd]

ñaaammeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Akela]

Totally agree with Malevolent. And the issue has nothing to do with servers or ping. I've never played anything but the single player campaign, yet at a certain point - can't be more precise, I'm afraid - I started missing, like, every other hit at point blank range. The issue is especially obvious with spades and pitchforks. The latter are pretty much unusable, while the former land a hit way after I take a swing. At least it takes long enough for me to notice the delay and attempt to swing it again. I only play offline, no mods, no nothing, so it must be in the vanilla code.