IS PUYO BETTER THAN TETRIS?

[N0VA]

I'm a tetris main and i play quite well. I don't really understand Puyo to extremes and I don't know how people set up chains and get so high with it. I don't dislike Puyo but it's just not my thing and so in story mode I restorted to a stratgey where if I have to play it I just ram as man puyos against the wall and then hope for the best when I finally pop some to clear em out.

Anyway, I noticed that a Puyo player can end your life pretty easily if they get a high chain. Its just game over because you can't possibly clear the rocks out fast enough. You place one, more come and cap out your board. I really hate this because its just so unfair you can't fight back. I know it's how the game works though so I'm going to suck it up.

What I want to know is can I counter that with Tetris? I am a pretty good tetris player, quick dropping skill and all of that, and I can easily get back to back tetris, but even with my back to backs I cannot send over enough to instantly cap the oppent out... So with that given it feels like tetris doesn't have as much attack power as Puyo? Am I wrong about this?

In the long run, who would win by default? I'm feeling like Puyo would because of the instant knock out.

How do I avoid instant knock outs from Puyo as a tetris player? How do I hit just as hard as a tetris player?

Thanks in advance for tips and information.

[1.2M | Missingno.]

TGM's cool, but modern Guideline Tetris is a horrible mess of poor design decisions. I also just don't really like Tetris as a multiplayer game, garbage on the bottom makes it feel very uninteractive, you just do your own thing with no real way to actively disrupt your opponent. Whereas Puyo is easily the best versus puzzler I've ever played, I love that you have to pay such close attention to your opponent's every move.

Oh, you were talking about PvT balance?

It all comes down to the fact that Tetris is a much faster game and Puyo garbage comes from the top. At high levels of play, Tetris can suffocate Puyo so fast it's like you don't even get to play. When you're getting a full row of T-spin garbage dropped on you for every two pieces you place, there's just no room for you to do anything.

However, amateur Tetris players struggle if they can't kill Puyo fast enough. Puyo's win condition is to finish a chain good enough to OHKO, Tetris's win condition is to prevent them from doing that. To accomplish that against a good Puyo you need to be very fast and optimize your DPS, or spot the perfect opening to ruin their chain with one well-timed strike. Avoid offsetting unless you absolutely have to, anything that won't kill you should be tanked so you can immediately counter before they have time to build a followup.

[N0VA]

Originally posted by Mega Missingno.:

TGM's cool, but modern Guideline Tetris is a horrible mess of poor design decisions. I also just don't really like Tetris as a multiplayer game, garbage on the bottom makes it feel very uninteractive, you just do your own thing with no real way to actively disrupt your opponent. Whereas Puyo is easily the best versus puzzler I've ever played, I love that you have to pay such close attention to your opponent's every move.

Oh, you were talking about PvT balance?

It all comes down to the fact that Tetris is a much faster game and Puyo garbage comes from the top. At high levels of play, Tetris can suffocate Puyo so fast it's like you don't even get to play. When you're getting a full row of T-spin garbage dropped on you for every two pieces you place, there's just no room for you to do anything.

However, amateur Tetris players struggle if they can't kill Puyo fast enough. Puyo's win condition is to finish a chain good enough to OHKO, Tetris's win condition is to prevent them from doing that. To accomplish that against a good Puyo you need to be very fast and optimize your DPS, or spot the perfect opening to ruin their chain with one well-timed strike. Avoid offsetting unless you absolutely have to, anything that won't kill you should be tanked so you can immediately counter before they have time to build a followup.

Ah thanks for the information, i guess that means it is balanced and one doesnt out do the other then too its just based on the players and knowing the strat. I also see you mentioning T-Spins regarding the garbage. Idk if I noticed it in game or not but do T-Spins send out more garbage? While I'm fast and good with tetris, I'm the make everything into a solid block and leave an opening for a striaght for instant tetris kinda player, so I don't get a chance to T-Spin much... Is that something I should work on?

[Crashdown]

t-spin double are doing the same damage as a tetris with less pieces, so that's a pretty better strategy than back to back tetris. btw, what's your sprint time? for the pvt matchup, if you're fast enough, a tetris player can destroy a puyo player.

you have two hints of amelioration:

- learning finesse and becoming faster
- learning t-spin and others guideline strategy

both are important, but i think the second is the easiest way to climb, if you want to beat both tetris and puyo players. t-spins are a must in this game

[1.2M | Missingno.]

It's not balanced at all, Tetris absolutely crushes Puyo at higher levels of play. Like I said, against experts Puyo doesn't even get to play.

A T-Spin Double deals as much damage as a Tetris, and a T-Spin Triple deals even more. Alternating between T-Spins and Tetrises also counts as a back-to-back for whatever reason, just as long as you don't clear anything else you can keep getting the b2b bonus over and over that way.

Modern Guideline Tetris puts a ridiculous amount of emphasis on T-Spins (which, as an aside, is a large part of why I don't like it, but that's a rant for another day). If you want to play this game, you'd better learn it. There are a number of openers you can learn that abuse the 7 bag randomizer for guaranteed setups, a quick DT Cannon or Albatross can disarm all but the fastest Puyo players right off the bat.

[Miuna]

I would have to say Mega Missingno has it spot on, i admit I'm not a big tetris fan (not as a whole, i love tetris, just i don't care for it in a puyo game) but tetris can choke puyo players litterally before a puyo player can do anything. Most puyo players will have to OHKO to live, which will require a 6+ chain (6 wont work well but might be enough to throw the tetris player off for some time, letting the puyo player finish them), whilst tetris players really only have to slam some blocks into a t-spin, do this as a double or spam them and the puyo player is down and crushed, remember, because garbage falls on the top for puyo, you only need a line or 2 of garbage and it blocks your chains (most of the time anyway). leaving you with a screen of puyo's you got to work down to and blocked from easy access, in short choking yourself to death.
Hard drop being disabled for puyo players essentially lets tetris hit godlike speeds (try some online games against high rank tetris players, you wont be able to see what is happening they play so fast).

Puyo players really will win the new players but otherwise will loose most games, so everyone is moving to tetris, i also dislike this relying on t-spins, it kind of removes what tetris was and not only powers up shots but means you become dependant on them, thus everyone becomes masters at them.

[N0VA]

Huh really interesting information guys, thanks! I'll pratice my T-Spins for sure.

Also a completely diffrent outcome than I was expecting, I was thinking because of that instant KO Puyos can do it would eventually put them at a level where its just not use fighting against as a teris player but clearly I was wrong and Tetris actually has the upper hand, which is also good to know!

Thanks for the help! :)

[SuperSnivy]

Originally posted by Magicphobic™:

Also a completely diffrent outcome than I was expecting, I was thinking because of that instant KO Puyos can do it would eventually put them at a level where its just not use fighting against as a teris player but clearly I was wrong and Tetris actually has the upper hand, which is also good to know!

You were reasoning well but you got to the wrong conclusion.

A high Puyo chain will OHKO a Tetris player no matter what, especially since the somewhat ineffective nerf Tetris got a few months ago (nerfing Perfect Clear and combo setups vs Puyo). However, Tetris has immense chain-disrupting capabilities, so that high Puyo chain is very difficult to pull off. And if the chain does not OHKO, Tetris starts returning those garbage lines.

[ChrisK]

I'm gonna leave this video here, not to try to disprove what others have said about the balance between puyo puyo and tetris, but to showcase a particular way of playing at a particular level of play where puyo can compete against tetris, and the opposite. (sorry to be vague, but I don't know enough to describe it in more detail).

And considering that we are not working with hard knowlege of what MagickPhobic level of play is, this gameplay maybe be useful or simply give more context to the discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el8elSZDChE (Doesn't contain talking, just gameplay)

[Tekken8]

you cannot defeat good puyo players if you dont do T-spin fast enough to ruin their chain setup. If you give puyo players a lot of time to set up their chain combos, gg for you. that all I wanna say.

[1.2M | Missingno.]

Some players are pretty good at playing the matchup by building vertically, so it's easier to absorb a few hits and chain through or around the garbage. But it's fairly difficult to build a chain big enough to kill that way, and even those strats only go so far against really fast experts.

Honestly the biggest problem I have with PvT is that it asks me to throw out everything I know about playing Puyo normally. It's just nothing like a standard Puyo match, and I always walk away feeling like I'm not learning anything from playing this dumb game mode.

[Infinite Fury]

They're both equally good. It's all in the matter of opinion. Take the tutorials on Youtube to learn some neat tricks.