Detailed thoughts on the lottery pick system

[Terotrous]

I was going to give a general impressions post but I realized it was going to be mostly about the lottery pick system so I just decided to just dedicate a topic to it.

In general, I like the system, and I think it's probably the best thing about the game. It helps make NBA Playgrounds feel unique to play rather than just being a complete Jam retread. I also feel like it ties the game's balance together, for example 3s in this game are generally strong, but they grant less lottery meter compared to dunks, so it prevents you from relying on them exclusively. It also creates an interesting mechanic where you have to decide on whether using a shove is worth losing your current meter / powerup for, which it sometimes is.

That being said, I feel there's a some balance issues surrounding the relative strength of the powerups, so I'll discuss each one in turn.


Thunderball:

This is the clear weak link among the powerups. It's usually best used just for a free 3 pointer, but 3-pointers aren't hard to come by anyway so it generally feels like you just don't get much of anything out of it. Also, of all the powerups, this one is the most easily stuffed, all it takes is one block or steal and you lose it (which also makes going for the thunder alley-oop very risky).

The fact that this powerup is so weak compared to some of the others causes some balance issues, as working on filling your meter just to get a thunderball while the opponent gets double 3 pointers just feels bad. I think a decent buff to the thunderball would be that it should also always add one more point onto the value of a shot, so a thunderball 3 pointer is worth 4 points. This is still not overwhelmingly strong, but it's a little better than nothing. The thunder-oop should probably be worth 6, to balance out the fact that you might get nothing by attempting to go for it.


Unlimited Turbo:

This is a weird one. I feel like this powerup is generally not all that strong, largely due to the fact that there's only really two main things you need turbo for in this game, shoves and crossovers, and if you do a shove you lose the powerup instantly. I would probably have said that it should just last slightly longer, but this powerup does have one very situational but strong use, which is running out the clock. With infinite crossovers, you can easily stall out the entire shot clock before taking a shot, which is great for camping a lead, and if this lasted a long time it could be really annoying. Maybe it's fine the way it is.


Short Shot Clock:

This one is perfect. It's just strong enough to have a decent impact while not being overbearing. Playing solid defense while this is active can net you a number of turnovers, whether from the shot clock actually expiring or just because it forces the opponent to take bad shots.



Double Dunks:

This one is also fine. Dunks are not all that strong in this game apart from building meter, and with this powerup active you don't get meter, so getting the extra point vs a 3 pointer is acceptable. Of all the "multiplier powerups", this is the only one that can stay the way it is.


Double 3 Pointers:

This, on the other hand, is monsterously broken. 3s are easy to bucket in this game, and getting 3 extra points when shooting one or two can almost immediately create a huge lead. To make matters worse, it also lasts a pretty long time.

Honestly, I feel like this powerup just shouldn't exist. It really doesn't add anything interesting to the game, because you don't play any differently when it's active. Bucketing 3 pointers is generally the go-to strategy most of the time, with this powerup active you just get a huge point advantage for doing it. I'd probably rather see this removed and replaced with another defensively-oriented power, perhaps one that makes steals or blocks better, or one that allows you to shove without penalty while it remains active. If it must continue to exist it should become "four-pointers" and just give you one extra point per successful 3 pointer.


Multiplier Stars:

This one is even worse than double 3 pointers. If this appears, you win the game, period. Sure, the defending team knows you're going to go for the stars so they can try to guard them, but all it takes is for you to land the 3x star and it's over, the 6 extra points you get from that 3 pointer will almost always create an insurmountable lead, and you have 61 seconds to do it, which is an eternity in this game. This thing is ridiculously overtuned.

That being said, I think this powerup actually creates interesting gameplay, it's just way too strong. Rather than being a multiplier, what this powerup should do is add points. The first star would be +1, the next would be +2, the third would be +3, and so on. Getting a 3 pointer that's worth 5 points is still a fair bit, but it's a heck of a lot better than 9. It also probably should only last 50 seconds or so.


Feel free to give your own thoughts as well.

[Terotrous]

I'll bump this one once.

[TryZen.]

I think youre suppose to alley oop the lightning ball. And spam steal with the stam one.

[Terotrous]

Originally posted by Bruce Chillis:

I think youre suppose to alley oop the lightning ball. And spam steal with the stam one.

I rarely go for the Thunder-Oop because it's only worth one extra point compared to the free 3 pointer, and there's a fairly decent chance it might get stuffed. That's why I feel that it should be worth 2 more points than the 3-pointer, so there's a decent incentive to take that risk.

As for stealing, it doesn't take any meter, so you can spam it whenever you're on defense, not just while having infinite turbo. No question being a bit faster makes it a touch more effective, but I don't find the effect as pronounced as the short shot clock one.

[TryZen.]

Steal uses Stamina

[Terotrous]

I'll check that later but if it does, it's not nearly as much as shoving or crossovers. I can usually get at least 4-5 in before I run out.

[TryZen.]

Originally posted by Terotrous:

I'll check that later but if it does, it's not nearly as much as shoving or crossovers. I can usually get at least 4-5 in before I run out.

it does.

[Terotrous]

Even then, I'm not sure that makes infinite turbo all that much better because that's largely how you play defense anyway, you might just get an extra steal attempt or two in there. I think it's fairly clear that timer scamming and getting a free shove when time is almost out are the best uses for the powerup.

In any case, I think Infinite Turbo is fine in terms of balance, it's clearly the multiplier ones that are too strong.

[View The Phenom]

Steal actually uses a decent bit of stamina. I was pleasantly surprised, it prevents the game from being a steal and shove fest similar to nba jam.

Extra points on 3 pointers needs to go, maybe switch it to every shot has perfect timing. The multiplier is interesting, maybe set it at *2 for every star, with the final spot ending behind the three point line.

[Terotrous]

Originally posted by Bruce Chillis:

Originally posted by Terotrous:

I'll check that later but if it does, it's not nearly as much as shoving or crossovers. I can usually get at least 4-5 in before I run out.

it does.

I just tested this on Switch, and it definitely does not require any stamina to steal, I can steal all day without my meter ever dropping. If it actually does on PC, it's a difference between the versions.

[View The Phenom]

Sounds like a Switch bug. Most actions require stamina.

[fgs_saber3d]

Thank you for such an elaborated feedback, and for everyone that took part in it. Lottery Picks have each their purpose and a different way to take the most ouf of some of them, you are already commenting on some of their better uses.

All the feedback is much welcome, and you make some good points that we will definitely consider for potential balancing. Keep experimenting with the Lottery Picks and let us know how your feeling of it evolves.

[TryZen.]

Originally posted by fgs_saber3d:

Thank you for such an elaborated feedback, and for everyone that took part in it. Lottery Picks have each their purpose and a different way to take the most ouf of some of them, you are already commenting on some of their better uses.

All the feedback is much welcome, and you make some good points that we will definitely consider for potential balancing. Keep experimenting with the Lottery Picks and let us know how your feeling of it evolves.

I think you missed the real issue with this Thread being that apparently it doesnt cost stamina to steal on switch. Atleast according to OP. Although i think he is mistaking his meter with stamina. Two completely different things.

[Terotrous]

Originally posted by Bruce Chillis:

I think you missed the real issue with this Thread being that apparently it doesnt cost stamina to steal on switch. Atleast according to OP. Although i think he is mistaking his meter with stamina. Two completely different things.

I'm talking about the turbo bar, which is displayed under the player. Stealing on Switch does not affect it at all. Performing a successful steal gives a very small boost to the lottery pick bar.

Shoving costs turbo meter, and also drains the lottery pick bar.

[TryZen.]

Originally posted by Terotrous:

Originally posted by Bruce Chillis:

I think you missed the real issue with this Thread being that apparently it doesnt cost stamina to steal on switch. Atleast according to OP. Although i think he is mistaking his meter with stamina. Two completely different things.

I'm talking about the turbo bar. Stealing on Switch does not affect it at all.

Shoving costs turbo meter, and also drains the lottery pick bar.

On PC is certainly does. You get 2-3 with most players before you are out of stamina.

[TryZen.]

The lack of player base on Steam is already a huge issue. This game lacked with the features it needed for any longevity. No Discord. No Friends. No Subreddit. Amatuer from the devs to have the game bleed out while they cant comprehend that no gamer wants to go to facebook to discuss games. Console players are coming to steam disccusions.. Where is the subreddit/discord. XD