Is SCVI the most unbalanced fight game and the worst of the serie ?

[anzdes]

- raph : frame / track / delay you / fast low / speed / recovry / long range
- amy : frame / track / delay you / fast low / speed / recovry / long range
- azwel : almost same thing + low grab + projectiles
- 2b : disappears during several hits, stronger than reversal, no super needed
- ivy : 2 range grab, like she wasn't good enough with range...
- hilde : fast low hit (really broken)


This is a non exhaustive list of i think extremely cancer char...
not my char but how to deal with this list playing for example mitsu, voldo, kilik, ast etc...
the one who says that there is not a big disadvantage has either played enough or is very dishonest. The attempt risk ratio of these char is biased...
if i'm not telling the truth how do you explain that you repeatedly face the same high ranked char online ?

do you often see S or A sieg ? voldo ? mitsu ? Kilik ? etc...

I think bandai namco really need to revisit the power of all char and remove that garbage reversal.

[{disaster} Take]

Nguyên văn bởi anzdes:

- ivy : 2 range grab, like she wasn't good enough with range...

I forgot about this in my reply. Ivy's ranged grabs can also be blocked like normal attacks.

Raph is pretty decent. He's not as simple to step as he used to be, and it's not even a weakness of his per-se, but he does have worse horizontal options than most of the cast by design, so he's not quite a top contender. He has, what, two mid horizontals in his entire move pool? Isn't his 2A a Special Low, where most others are Special Mid?

Azwel also has the slowest kick in the game. Believe it or not, but this matters, because a lot of AutoGIs specify in their helper text that they work vs horizontal attacks -except kicks-, or vertical attacks -except kicks-. If you're Azwel, and you're at mid range against Xianghua, you don't have any convenient way of stuffing her AutoGIs, and those AutoGIs are also LHs. Mina has a bunch of AutoGIs at close range, and Azwel not having an easy way to deny those isn't great, either. Even Sig in Base Hold theoretically has an easy read on verticals vs Azwel because Azwel's kicks are too slow, meaning Sig doesn't need to worry about them in that situation (theoretically, mind. In reality, Chief Hold is a bit picky about evading verticals).

Amy is legit one of the best, and a lot of the best players rate her as THE best next to Hilde, because even though she's weak by design without roses, getting roses is kind of trivial if you've half decent at the game at least. But she does have some matchups that are not in her favour at all.
The only characters who are actually good against everyone it seems by pro's concerns are Nightmare and Talim. Even Hilde has a few weak spots.

[Habaduba]

Finally someone not talking out of their ass, congrats you figured that 90% of complains in this discussion are just ppl salting at their loses vs mid/low charracters and you got most stuff spot on. The game is really well ballanced but you won't know looking at any steam discussions coz most ppl here are grossly incompetent

Just some corrections:

All generic 2A's are speciall low but raphs is indeed worse then average coz of framedata

Yes Azwel is mid at best, axe low is tied to a stance that bad players won't follow, his projectiles are indeed a literall nofactor

Your other judgements are also correct

The charracters usually in the top 5 are Hilde, Yoshi, NM, Tira, X with Amy, Cervantes, Talim making it in some tierlists, you probably noticed most of those were dismissed or even downplayed in case of NM in favour of 2B (arguably the worst charracter in the game) and some noobstompers like azwel Ivy and mina (all midtier) but it just goes to show this is no place and people to talk about ballance with

[anzdes]

Firstly I would like to say to the NPC sarcasme is something very French and even AI cannot match the works of Voltaire in this domain...

On the different topics I realize that the majority of people are in quite good faith and complain in reality of the quality of soulcalibur games which decreases drastically and that they look more and more like bad hentai than what it is at the beginning.

Ivy (archetypal example) got 2 range grab after which she can combo, hits with width, track and of course has this reach,
yes you can dodge bullets during an armed attack in real life if you anticipate enough, there is even a very good film about it

to say that the game is balanced simply does not make sense and I am not defending myself here simply exposing facts...

[{disaster} Take]

Nguyên văn bởi anzdes:

Firstly I would like to say to the NPC sarcasme is something very French and even AI cannot match the works of Voltaire in this domain...

On the different topics I realize that the majority of people are in quite good faith and complain in reality of the quality of soulcalibur games which decreases drastically and that they look more and more like bad hentai than what it is at the beginning.

Ivy (archetypal example) got 2 range grab after which she can combo, hits with width, track and of course has this reach,
yes you can dodge bullets during an armed attack in real life if you anticipate enough, there is even a very good film about it

to say that the game is balanced simply does not make sense and I am not defending myself here simply exposing facts...

I wasn't being sarcastic. I am 82 IQ. I am genuinely sorry that my argument was off. I am essentially an NPC with IQ as low as mine, so you're technically within your right to call me that.

Ivy's 2 ranged grabs can be blocked. Just block them. You'd be surprised how many of her ranged attacks can be avoided by low block. After blocking, most characters can 6 and the range advantage is gone. It's not easy, but it's not the bullet hell you think it is, I promise, if even I can hit 6 and not die, you can too.
Oddly enough, there's a concept to "zoners" that isn't intuitive at all, and that's being out of their range. It sounds stupid, because you'd think the goal of a zoner is to keep you away, which is kind of is, but zoners have to commit to keeping you at the exact range they want, and being too far means they must commit to one particular attack. A character like Talim is a hard counter, because Talim, the one with tiny arms who attacks almost exclusively with close range strikes, is secretly a ranged character.
Ivy's longest range move I think can be sidestepped, and it takes so long for her to recover than you can sidestep and 66 even as the slowest character and now be in close range at a +frame.
Oh, and I'd need to lab it, but forward jumps do jump quite far, and I'm sure a lot of characters 9B can jump over Ivy's ranged grabs and hit her. I can't remember if it's only empty jumps that get the extra distance...

[LeonUzumakiX]

oh soul calibur 6? oh yeah this game is trash as ♥♥♥♥ but the game is better with mods and i mean that the game is being worked on to this very day by fans that dont want the game to die,look up vodkaverse new violent edge and new critical edges on youtube it was a video made 3 months or so ago and it showcases major changes, they took away reversal edge for a much more useful mechanic and finishers look great ontop of character balances and alterations it s compatable online if other people are using it

[anzdes]

Nguyên văn bởi {worst} f_ake:

Nguyên văn bởi anzdes:

Firstly I would like to say to the NPC sarcasme is something very French and even AI cannot match the works of Voltaire in this domain...

On the different topics I realize that the majority of people are in quite good faith and complain in reality of the quality of soulcalibur games which decreases drastically and that they look more and more like bad hentai than what it is at the beginning.

Ivy (archetypal example) got 2 range grab after which she can combo, hits with width, track and of course has this reach,
yes you can dodge bullets during an armed attack in real life if you anticipate enough, there is even a very good film about it

to say that the game is balanced simply does not make sense and I am not defending myself here simply exposing facts...

I wasn't being sarcastic. I am 82 IQ. I am genuinely sorry that my argument was off. I am essentially an NPC with IQ as low as mine, so you're technically within your right to call me that.

Ivy's 2 ranged grabs can be blocked. Just block them. You'd be surprised how many of her ranged attacks can be avoided by low block. After blocking, most characters can 6 and the range advantage is gone. It's not easy, but it's not the bullet hell you think it is, I promise, if even I can hit 6 and not die, you can too.
Oddly enough, there's a concept to "zoners" that isn't intuitive at all, and that's being out of their range. It sounds stupid, because you'd think the goal of a zoner is to keep you away, which is kind of is, but zoners have to commit to keeping you at the exact range they want, and being too far means they must commit to one particular attack. A character like Talim is a hard counter, because Talim, the one with tiny arms who attacks almost exclusively with close range strikes, is secretly a ranged character.
Ivy's longest range move I think can be sidestepped, and it takes so long for her to recover than you can sidestep and 66 even as the slowest character and now be in close range at a +frame.
Oh, and I'd need to lab it, but forward jumps do jump quite far, and I'm sure a lot of characters 9B can jump over Ivy's ranged grabs and hit her. I can't remember if it's only empty jumps that get the extra distance...

shh

[ShadowSplit]

I really am not sure whether is game just balanced poorly or the online simply sucks.... Or both.

[Aya]

Nguyên văn bởi ShadowSplit:

I really am not sure whether is game just balanced poorly or the online simply sucks.... Or both.

I mean, if you're not playing as or fighting against a small handful of VERY specific characters, the balance is actually alright. As I've said in an earlier thread, the second best character isn't too far ahead from the second worst

[ShadowSplit]

Nguyên văn bởi Aya:

Nguyên văn bởi ShadowSplit:

I really am not sure whether is game just balanced poorly or the online simply sucks.... Or both.

I mean, if you're not playing as or fighting against a small handful of VERY specific characters, the balance is actually alright. As I've said in an earlier thread, the second best character isn't too far ahead from the second worst

Then it must be online. Maybe playing several matches online every few months is disrupted by constant offline play where internet fluctuation is non existent...

[{disaster} Take]

Nguyên văn bởi anzdes:

shh

I'm sorry, you're right, I'm ranting when I'm not even skilled at the game. I don't have the right to an opinion here.
I can agree to some of the stuff you said if it helps, because I don't want to be the reason yet another thread and another great player has left the game for good.

On an earlier page, you said "Mitsu and Sieg in a top tier is completely irrational..."
I wouldn't put it quite as strongly, but I think you're right, Sieg is one of the weakest characters in the game, and Mitsu is at best mid.
I'd add that, Soul Calibur being Soul Calibur, Sieg still has two matchups against SS+ tiers where he just autowins because of goofball interactions, and sucks against literally every other character in the game. I'm not sure Mitsu has that pleasure, though.

[DANIEL RAIN]

Nguyên văn bởi {worst} f_ake:

Nguyên văn bởi anzdes:

shh

I'm sorry, you're right, I'm ranting when I'm not even skilled at the game. I don't have the right to an opinion here.
I can agree to some of the stuff you said if it helps, because I don't want to be the reason yet another thread and another great player has left the game for good.

On an earlier page, you said "Mitsu and Sieg in a top tier is completely irrational..."
I wouldn't put it quite as strongly, but I think you're right, Sieg is one of the weakest characters in the game, and Mitsu is at best mid.
I'd add that, Soul Calibur being Soul Calibur, Sieg still has two matchups against SS+ tiers where he just autowins because of goofball interactions, and sucks against literally every other character in the game. I'm not sure Mitsu has that pleasure, though.

Siegfried is easily top 5 actually, he has way too many advantages to be one of the weakest characters in this awful game...

[{disaster} Take]

Nguyên văn bởi DANIEL RAIN:

Siegfried is easily top 5 actually, he has way too many advantages to be one of the weakest characters in this awful game...

Ah I see. Other pros always rate him low, but then again, I've seen pro play of Sig vs Amy and he wins quite regularly - of all matchups, Amy?!
But you're kind of a God on Groh, so I'm wondering if Sig is good against Groh somehow, or if it's a secret agreement of Sig mains to claim Sig is weak so they can stealth pick Sig and win more.
Talim mains will tell people Talim is "rushdown", but I don't think anyone buys it.

[DANIEL RAIN]

Nguyên văn bởi {worst} f_ake:

Nguyên văn bởi DANIEL RAIN:

Siegfried is easily top 5 actually, he has way too many advantages to be one of the weakest characters in this awful game...

Ah I see. Other pros always rate him low, but then again, I've seen pro play of Sig vs Amy and he wins quite regularly - of all matchups, Amy?!
But you're kind of a God on Groh, so I'm wondering if Sig is good against Groh somehow, or if it's a secret agreement of Sig mains to claim Sig is weak so they can stealth pick Sig and win more.
Talim mains will tell people Talim is "rushdown", but I don't think anyone buys it.

Yeah he's fine vs Groh, the latter is a character that is mostly about punishing stuff, having good defence and moves knowledge in general is extremely required to play Groh properly or you won't get far imo, you need to know how to duck moves properly and how to punish, you also need to know when to use certain moves cuz most of his moves are extremely unsafe on block, good luck fighting a Xianghua or a Kilik using Groh for example , also from all these years of playing ranked i can only remember that "Something Refined" guy and "Kaze (something)" using my main, there aren't many Groh players on ranked from my experience, anyway he's also about pressure and building meter, his only real tool is the stance, that's all he has other than the attack boost during soul charge, a Siegfried has to work way less than Groh (and some other chars) to get the job done, that's for sure, not complaining or anything tho, i'm just saying, for a guy with a big sword he has way too much frame advantages and tools, lately i'm playing a lot of Dead Or Alive and Granblue Fantasy Versus Rising ranked modes but i will probably return to this eventually cuz i kinda miss destroying people on ranked - i still think that Yoshimitsu, Raphael and Amy are broken tho, these 3 are the worst to fight on ranked imo P.S for the user that gave me the jester award for literally no reason other than "jealousy", that's def you :P :D

[Alex Darkcrowne]

Only character in that list that even remotely counts as broken is Hilde, and NOT for that low hit.
Her neutral is one of the best in the game and she's an absolute unit at punishing mistakes.

Raph, Amy, and Ivy are popular because they tend to carry idiots with their oki and their traps.
Amy is mid-high tier, but she's so reliant on getting Roses that anyone who can constantly enforce neutral on her will ruin her day.
Ivy and Raph suffer from the same issue.

2B is, objectively, one of the most punishable characters in the game Her AgS spam can be shut down hard just with quick BBs by a lot of the cast.

Azwel's Axe B+K requires him to be in Axe (so it's telegraphed), takes 24 frames to execute, and sits at a mind-boggling -20 on block. All his Weapon Arts are CE-punishable, (just not for NM, Ivy, Zas, and Yoshi).
Lastly, it also takes him out of Axe, meaning he's back to being -8 on everything that isn't a kick or a grab.

[anzdes]

Nguyên văn bởi Alex Darkcrowne:

Only character in that list that even remotely counts as broken is Hilde, and NOT for that low hit.
Her neutral is one of the best in the game and she's an absolute unit at punishing mistakes.

Raph, Amy, and Ivy are popular because they tend to carry idiots with their oki and their traps.
Amy is mid-high tier, but she's so reliant on getting Roses that anyone who can constantly enforce neutral on her will ruin her day.
Ivy and Raph suffer from the same issue.

2B is, objectively, one of the most punishable characters in the game Her AgS spam can be shut down hard just with quick BBs by a lot of the cast.

Azwel's Axe B+K requires him to be in Axe (so it's telegraphed), takes 24 frames to execute, and sits at a mind-boggling -20 on block. All his Weapon Arts are CE-punishable, (just not for NM, Ivy, Zas, and Yoshi).
Lastly, it also takes him out of Axe, meaning he's back to being -8 on everything that isn't a kick or a grab.

Ivy got 0 weak points