Siegfried and Nightmare are op

[UndyingRevenant]

Fact is they need to be unable to use their critical edges, damage cut by 25%, speed reduced by 13% to compensate for having big swords. Talim also feels underpowered, I propose we buff her speed by 80% and add in a free auto combo system to compensate. Astaroth needs more damage though, he needs easier wall death combos to fight against Siegfried and nightmare. Siegfried and nightmare are always op though, I remember in v where siegfried and nightmare tapped you within 20 feet of a wall and proceed to perform a completely high skill cap of one grab input to proceed to break your character in roughly 2-3 pieces. simply atrocious. I also feel like other extremely high skill cap characters like ivy need compensation buffs like having all of ivys unblockables target high and low with a 50% speed increase. Finally I propose that if the op people i think are op i still think are op after these changes, we should start a poll on reddit to see if people will rate comment and subscribe if people think wot i think. please upvote this thread so koei tecmo sees it

[r4u_s31ryu]

Originally posted by Dr Gori:

Originally posted by r4u_s31ryu:

well, nightmare can't be pressured. i ask you who is the character who have move like that (that explosion wich invincible even when we attack it). Just take it out or delay it more. it will make nightmare and sieg balanced character then. i fight so many higher ranked but not feel cheated like that, if i lose then i lose with fair condition. just you know, i fight so many 15000+ rp character and it still fun except someone who use nightmare and sieg. people say ivy, mina, zasalamel is broken but i say they still can be pressured. Their range is great. Ivy and zasalamed have guard impact to critical edge but still more fair than nightmare and sieg.

the bubble isnt invincable, it's the worst defensive option in the game.

it gets stuffed by lows, launchers, throws, break attacks, and unblockables.

rather than research the move (the counters to the bubble are litterally all over the forum, i know i mention them every single time i see a complaint) you instead want to complain that you cnt get past it.

yes, nightmare and sig can be pressured, you just need to pressure them with lows. i'm a sig main, and people who know the matchup never let up off the lows when they see me enter dark legacy, and generally stuff every attempt i make at a bubble.

so, to put it clearly, the problem isnt the game or the characters, the problem is your play.

the problem here is, how can you do that in a middle of combo. i know there is break attack combo, but that bubble is so fast. NO stupid people would do that buble while their opponent is not attacking. it's okay if BAMCO won't take that out, but to be fair give all the character the same thing. you won't complain because you main siegfried..thats the problem.

[Gaxkang]

Originally posted by r4u_s31ryu:

the problem here is, how can you do that in a middle of combo. i know there is break attack combo, but that bubble is so fast. NO stupid people would do that buble while their opponent is not attacking. it's okay if BAMCO won't take that out, but to be fair give all the character the same thing. you won't complain because you main siegfried..thats the problem.

Eh I did a low on Siegfried's bubble once, I got hit anyways. On another bubble the low worked. Consistency is a lacking thing in the game.

As for in the middle of a combo, it could be an online thing, or depend on the exact attacks I suppose.

But yeah things like the bubbles are problematic despite what some folks say.

There's a lot of nonsense in the game and too much damage in the game...basically the idea is to overwhelm the other person before they work their nonsense on your guy.

[Truthless]

i'm a sig main

XDDDDD Guy that attacks everyone and call them scrubs plays ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Sieg XDDD Judging by your posts I was sure it was something of the broken trio Ivy, NM, Sieg. It was obvious

(and cant even get 60fps in game like that apparently)

[Don Bone]

Originally posted by Gaxkang:

Eh I did a low on Siegfried's bubble once, I got hit anyways. On another bubble the low worked. Consistency is a lacking thing in the game.

As for in the middle of a combo, it could be an online thing, or depend on the exact attacks I suppose.

But yeah things like the bubbles are problematic despite what some folks say.

I've yet to test it on Sieg's bubble, but if it works more the same way with NM's bubble, which I've labbed against, then the real answer is that they're not particularly weak to just lows, but any attack type really, on the condition that said attack's first hit bypasses the bubble's armor . I don't have exact numbers, but I think it soaks up to about 20 dmg. Anything above that and the bubble would get cancelled.

So long the bubble isn't in it's active frames yet, you can stuff it with any of those. I've tested with Sophie's 6B+K, 66A+B, 1[K], etc. etc. and the consistent result is that anything which first hit's damage is above 20 (like the moves I just mentioned) would kill it.

As for people calling it unfair, unseeable & stuff, I don't know about that. I mean, while I do think they're hard to deal with if I don't see it coming, it could also be due to my lack of matchup knowledge and might turn out to be actually easy to deal with once I know the proper approach in the matchup. Then again, maybe not and might actually require some tuning. But as it is, I'm not gonna bias on either side.

[AlphaASX]

yoshi,raph,sieg are the only that are op and need nerf

[r4u_s31ryu]

Originally posted by Bond of Travolta:

Originally posted by Gaxkang:

Eh I did a low on Siegfried's bubble once, I got hit anyways. On another bubble the low worked. Consistency is a lacking thing in the game.

As for in the middle of a combo, it could be an online thing, or depend on the exact attacks I suppose.

But yeah things like the bubbles are problematic despite what some folks say.

I've yet to test it on Sieg's bubble, but if it works more the same way with NM's bubble, which I've labbed against, then the real answer is that they're not particularly weak to just lows, but any attack type really, on the condition that said attack's first hit bypasses the bubble's armor . I don't have exact numbers, but I think it soaks up to about 20 dmg. Anything above that and the bubble would get cancelled.

So long the bubble isn't in it's active frames yet, you can stuff it with any of those. I've tested with Sophie's 6B+K, 66A+B, 1[K], etc. etc. and the consistent result is that anything which first hit's damage is above 20 (like the moves I just mentioned) would kill it.

As for people calling it unfair, unseeable & stuff, I don't know about that. I mean, while I do think they're hard to deal with if I don't see it coming, it could also be due to my lack of matchup knowledge and might turn out to be actually easy to deal with once I know the proper approach in the matchup. Then again, maybe not and might actually require some tuning. But as it is, I'm not gonna bias on either side.

THANKS, must try it...

[Zelph]

Originally posted by AlphaASX:

yoshi,raph,sieg are the only that are op and need nerf

None of them are overpowered, and none need nerfed. This whole "I can't deal with things so they need nerfed" stuff needs to stop. Unless something is blatantly broken, leave it alone.

[AlphaASX]

Originally posted by twitch.tv/zelph77:

Originally posted by AlphaASX:

yoshi,raph,sieg are the only that are op and need nerf

None of them are overpowered, and none need nerfed. This whole "I can't deal with things so they need nerfed" stuff needs to stop. Unless something is blatantly broken, leave it alone.

learn them and u will see how overpowered and spamable they are

[r4u_s31ryu]

Originally posted by AlphaASX:

Originally posted by twitch.tv/zelph77:

None of them are overpowered, and none need nerfed. This whole "I can't deal with things so they need nerfed" stuff needs to stop. Unless something is blatantly broken, leave it alone.

learn them and u will see how overpowered and spamable they are

TRUE,....

[Mister Cross]

this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLGY7xsMemw

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by r4u_s31ryu:

the problem here is, how can you do that in a middle of combo.

STOP MASHING AND SCRUBBING BUTTONS!

Originally posted by Gaxkang:

Eh I did a low on Siegfried's bubble once, I got hit anyways. On another bubble the low worked. Consistency is a lacking thing in the game.

timing. if you start a move late, of course you're gonna get hit.

Originally posted by OnePnch:

XDDDDD Guy that attacks everyone and call them scrubs plays ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Sieg XDDD Judging by your posts I was sure it was something of the broken trio Ivy, NM, Sieg. It was obvious

(and cant even get 60fps in game like that apparently)

yes, i've been open about it. i've been a sig main since before this moveset was sig, back when it was nightmare. so, probably longer than you've been alive.

also: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/more-on-losing

more on why you're a scrub.

and also, other differences between us, i dont RQ, i dont play 2B, and i dont have one hand on my ♥♥♥♥ instead of my fightstick when i'm playing the game =]

[Truthless]

13 year old with his edgy big sword husbando XD Of course you will defend the game when youre playing one of most overpowered characters. You would actually need to do more than 3 moves if they balanced it properly

[Gaxkang]

Originally posted by Dr Gori:

timing. if you start a move late, of course you're gonna get hit.

Didn't seem late. But either way it shows how for whatever reason something is off slightly that the surefire solution isn't so sure. And the bubble does nice chunk of damage, knocks you down and Siegfried wants you knocked down since that leads to even more with him.

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by OnePnch:

13 year old with his edgy big sword husbando XD Of course you will defend the game when youre playing one of most overpowered characters. You would actually need to do more than 3 moves if they balanced it properly

“At least I have my Code of Honor,” a.k.a. “You are cheap!”



This is by far the most common call of the scrub, and I’ve already described it in detail. The loser usually takes the imagined moral high ground by sticking to his Code of Honor, a made-up set of personal rules that tells him which moves he can and cannot do. Of course, the rules of the game itself dictate which moves a player can and cannot make, so the Code of Honor is superfluous and counterproductive toward winning. This can also take the form of the loser complaining that you have broken his Code of Honor. He will almost always assume the entire world agrees on his Code and that only the most vile social outcasts would ever break his rules. It can be difficult to even reason with the kind of religious fervor some players have toward their Code. This type of player is trying desperately to remain a “winner” any way possible. If you catch him amidst a sea of losses, you’ll notice that his Code will undergo strange contortions so that he may still define himself, somehow, as a “winner.”

Originally posted by Gaxkang:

Originally posted by Dr Gori:

timing. if you start a move late, of course you're gonna get hit.

Didn't seem late. But either way it shows how for whatever reason something is off slightly that the surefire solution isn't so sure. And the bubble does nice chunk of damage, knocks you down and Siegfried wants you knocked down since that leads to even more with him.

*shrug* lag then. i get stuffed often enough by people who know the matchup. i suggest going to the lab, setting a CPU sigfried to repeat the bubble, and particing the timing of it.

[Zelph]

Originally posted by AlphaASX:

Originally posted by twitch.tv/zelph77:

None of them are overpowered, and none need nerfed. This whole "I can't deal with things so they need nerfed" stuff needs to stop. Unless something is blatantly broken, leave it alone.

learn them and u will see how overpowered and spamable they are

I have played against good players of each, they aren't overpowered. They all have openings, especially seig. Being good is not the same thing as being overpowered or broken. Stop trying to make good characters into monsters they aren't.