Taki is absolute trash

[Muscarine]

I'm currently around the top 20 or so with 50 hours on Taki, and it pains me to say i'm gonna drop SC6 until hopefully they come up with a balance patch.

I've always been a Taki player, granted i didn't play SC5, her iteration in this game is a joke to the point i wonder if she was designed by people who actually considered the rest of the cast when they decided to tweak her timings, frames, and to gut so many of her essential moves out.

Let me put this in a list :

- Worst range in the game
- Absolutely 0 means for ground harrasment when the entire cast can combo 50% hp out of a single drop by just pressing a couple verticals.
- Air follow up is so weak, her pathetic chip damage on guard is actually more rewarding
- Telegraphs, telegraphs everywhere, especially funny when you're supposed to use your kit to close the gap
- Laughable damage on everything except a couple extremely situational moves you'll use once every 50 games
- Instant massive damage drop off on combos, don't bother following up you will put yourself in an extremely disadvantageous position for 5 more damage
- Counter intuitive frame perfect moves with laughable range & damage, A:6
- + Block on nothing, terrible neutral initiative, A:6 is the fastest move in the game but you will never be at range to counter hit with it
- Most of your moves push the opponent away, meaning you have to close the gap again. If they don't then the opponent is on the ground, at which point you have the option to do meaningless additional damage, or let them get up and hope the mind game works (protip : it doesn't past sappling level)
- No mixups whatsoever. Ok i'm lying she has a couple pathetic high low mixups which are absolutely not threatening at all, when it's done she loses her turn.
- Not a single low attack on possession. pos K can hit the ground, but it's a high. That's it. How to counter Taki : guard up, that's it you won.
- Pathetic sidestep tracking. And i don't mean tracking the opponent when they do. No, i mean you will sidestep and enemy attack, and miss your punish, just like that, ending up showing your back with 0 means to take the initiative back.
- Pathetic recovery, about as slow as Nightmare (rushdown, am i right)
- Not a single grab to ring out. Only way to ring out with a pseudo grab is stalker grab. More on this.
- Not a single decent way to stand up except flipping a coin. Always terribly susceptible to ground follow ups. Yes there's BK, no you won't land it except on Talim and other Taki.
- Stalker grab is stupidly timing demanding, for a pathetic amount of additional damage when every other character can simply mash verticals for 50% of your health bar on air combo.
- Stalker grab on cannon is a joke, the timing is off compared to other stalker grabs, for some unknown reason the game refuses to buffer inputs on this combo, and you have to guess if it's gonna hit otherwise you simply jump in the exact right position so your butt can get spanked.
- Always start the round out of range of literally every single attack except the funny 4AB which is an invitation to get her face pounded
- Worst Soul Burst in the entire game, couple new follow ups you just have to guard a bit longer, couple more damage, same exact telegraphed moves
- One of the slowest CE startup in the game. At least the CE has iframe. Expect to get screwed by tracking a lot though, second phase is interruptible, and of course it comes with the lowest damage in the game.
- Extremely easy to counter with RE, extremely susceptible to any CE punish.
- Bread and Butter pos A startup loses you frame advantage on guard (LOL)
- Many vertical attacks got gifted with extremely generous hitboxes especially at close range, meaning you sidestep but nope, get trashed.
- Funnily enough, Taki's verticals are the only exception to that rule. Every single of her verticals are so easy to sidestep there's 0 risk involved. By the way, pos A can be sidestepped. I guess they forgot it's an horizontal. And if by any chance you didn't sidestep correctly don't worry you just have to guard up, or let her miss on her own like she does 50% of the time.
- pos BK can be countered by a low hit. You heard it right. That move where she teleports in the air above you ? High, mid, low, doesn't matter, just press a button and you land a counter hit.
- 66B lethal hit is impossible to land, requires you hug your opponent's pixels, makes complete sens for a forward attack (with laughable range).
- 0 chip damage threat, a single Nightmare hit will do more chip damage than Taki in an entire round.
- Her rolls. FFS her rolls. Could they make it slower if they tried ? Startup is so bad it's not even useful to dodge high horizontals. Won't dodge any verticals. How to use them ? Flip a coin, that's about it.
- Speaking of rolls, stalker B's GI is so short it might as well be removed so that there's less chance my opponent starts lagging because the game had to display an extra vfx.
- The list goes on but i'm tired at this point

Did you plan on maining Taki ? Forget entirely about it. She's gone.
She doesn't come with anything justifying top entry. She's at the lowest, lowest tier.
Playing her is an exercise in frustration where you put 10x the risk and effort for half the rewards of any other character.

[Spartan40]

See Taki in any SC6 tournament videos lately? How about ever?

[BillHicks]

She is only trash if the Koreans say so.

[Lord Oink]

Originally posted by ComradePB:

Originally posted by Oberon Omega:

♥♥♥♥ that. It's kinda hilarious that Taki players always want her to be OP and ♥♥♥♥. I remember dreading to face that ♥♥♥♥♥♥ Natsu char on SC5. Oh, how the tables have turned! Deal with it, scrub. But knowing people like you, you'll probably just jump to Nightmare and keep ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ safely.

At the bare minimum she probably needs:

1) At least one low attack from possession stance or a cancel so that possession can be a part of the mind games instead of being beaten by standing guard all the time.

2) For her frames to be tweaked a bit so that her most basic moves don't constantly lose out to characters who are supposed to be slower attackers, to have plus guard on some of her attacks, and so other moves don't utterly fail in their intended purpose (why bother using the sideways roll when your opponent will just land the vertical on you anyway?).

3) For the tracking on her attacks to be fixed because in a fighting game the idea is to actually be able to hit something.

That's not even accounting for the many other issues raised by the list above like push back on her attacks and damage scaling.

That's OP to you? Cause from where I'm sitting those seem like some pretty basic balancing tweaks.

Doesn't need a low. She has a throw from possession stance. If they duck to avoid the throw use f+kick.

[ComradePB]

Originally posted by Lord Ponut:

Doesn't need a low. She has a throw from possession stance. If they duck to avoid the throw use f+kick.

Grabs can be teched and the back throw doesn't do that much damage. Plus if they know enough to duck, then they know enough to punish and using 6K goes into the second problem I mentioned. All you're gonna get out of that scenario is Nightmare chucking you up in the air by your legs or Sophie giving you a stab in the gut.

[xXSetsu]

Taki is broken!!! Her A is 2 frames faster than Siegfrieds... It doesn't matter she only has a third of his range!!!

I have seen Taki in a Tournament yesterday. The Taki player got destroyed. He had no chance at all because is enemy (Raphael) had faster attacks, better strings and more range.

[ComradePB]

Originally posted by Wolfenstein:

Taki is broken!!! Her A is 2 frames faster than Siegfrieds... It doesn't matter she only has a third of his range!!!

I have seen Taki in a Tournament yesterday. The Taki player got destroyed. He had no chance at all because is enemy (Raphael) had faster attacks, better strings and more range.

Not to mention Raphael ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ chases you when he attacks.

For Taki's in tournaments I have seen one video where one was fighting in Top 8. Tomahawk at SCR 2018, he finished fourth. Pretty good, but that's the one case I can point to.

[xXSetsu]

Thats what Taki completely misses. Just look at raph, maxi, talim..... they all have decent forward moving strings. I still don't think Taki is trash but just take a look at the Taki vs. Azwell matchup...
He counters her whole kit by backwalking and hitting from safe range >.>

[Shootme]

TAKI is very. by far my favorite character. she isn't a dumb spamming charcter anymore. learn to read the match and counter as often as you can.

RE: lot of combo can be paused or delayed to fake your oponent. but sometime I let RE hit me, then I can use my combo if I won the duel.

being harased? press forward and Guard at the right time.

no low attack? down+K, is a great combo opener.

Taki has weak attack, yes. Less than before, yes... trash? no

rules N°1 with taki... use this damn ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ space aroung you, move !!!

[xXSetsu]

Yea i love Taki too. She's so fun to play and pulling of nice mixups and crazy combos is so rewarding.

But it's fact, she has no compensation for her low range.

There is no benefit in a 12 Frame B when u can't connect it due to her poor range.

Her only auto GI is the most useless one in the game. Her 66B lethal hit is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ as well as her Pos B+K lethal has no use at all.

Just remove Special Low from Crouch 2A+B, from Crouch 2A and from 6B+K A.
Maybe give her more than one viable Break Attack outside of SC.
Fix her broken tracking when using 88B. It sometimes misses on non moving opponents....

[ComradePB]

Originally posted by Zelph:

If blocking high wins you the match, you are playing a bad taki. Stop playing bad players.

ALL TAKI ATTACKS THAT MUST BE BLOCKED LOW

HORIZONTALS

-1A (has wind up from spinning)

-Crouching 3A, K (initial strike has wind up)

-Jumping A (you're jumping so unless it's a low, you're screwed. Also wind up from jump)

VERTICALS

-1B (has wind up from spinning)

-Rising/Jump B, B (hit's medium first and more wind up if you're jumping)

KICKS

-K, K, 2K (hit high twice first, entire thing can be ducked)

-2K (has wind up from spinning)

-1K, K (not too bad, but she has to spend frames stepping forward first)

-4K, K (hits high first, spins on second kick spending frames)

Crouching 3K, K (not too bad)

Jump K (hits high first, entire thing can be ducked, wind up from jumping)

Sliding K (REALLY obvious)

TOTALS

Total Attacks in Move List: 174
Total Attacks That Hit Low: 13
Total Attacks That Start Low: 8
Percentage of Total Attacks that Hit Low: 7%
Percentage of Total Attacks that Start Low: 4%

THAT'S PATHETIC

[xXSetsu]

I can't rank those numbers without any comparison >.< It's high or low?
Well she has no low which combos from A or B string without crouch.

[ComradePB]

I was counting any attack or string of attacks that hit low at any point and require the opponent crouch guard to defend themselves.

For comparison's sake looking at other close range characters:

TAKI - 13

TALIM - 18

SOPHITIA - 18

XIANGHUA - 32

I may have been a bit overzealous with the percentages, I see that now.

However, the important thing here is that for the other three characters, those low attacks: more often start low, are tied to their character specific abilites (Wind Charmer, Angel Step, etc.) making them harder to predict, and mix up the attack strings in such a way that you can't duck and guard the entire string (llike Xianghua's 66 A, B, B which hits High, Medium, Low). Hell two of Sophie's even have guard impacts.

So if I may correct myself, it's not so much the number of lows rather than where and how they were implemented. Either way, I still think Taki loses out.

[xXSetsu]

If we only had a low in Pos >.<
Also wish A+B was low. This would make SC 66 A.A A+B so much better >.<

[Piki]

The problem with "just block high" against taki is that she does a ton of guard damage, just blocking high against taki is a scary thing because she will either guard break you which can lead to a free round on a lot of stages since she can ring out over walls easily with it, or leave you at red guard and exploit people that panic, since a lot of people will expect the POS B for guard break and will try and side step a lot. I love people that just block high as taki personally, the scary people are the ones that actually try and duck or side step lol

[Lord Oink]

Originally posted by ComradePB:

Originally posted by Lord Ponut:

Doesn't need a low. She has a throw from possession stance. If they duck to avoid the throw use f+kick.

Grabs can be teched and the back throw doesn't do that much damage. Plus if they know enough to duck, then they know enough to punish and using 6K goes into the second problem I mentioned. All you're gonna get out of that scenario is Nightmare chucking you up in the air by your legs or Sophie giving you a stab in the gut.

The throw can be teched - yes and? Attacks can be blocked and teched, what's your point here lol. If they expect an A coming they are not going to counter the kick. An unnecessary low from possession stance is not going to help your inadequacies.