DRADIS Range sucks

[Abaçı]

How come the smallest of capitals, Manticore, can have 7000 DRADIS range but huge battlestars that have plenty of room, both interior and exterior, to accomodate whatever equipment DRADIS needs have 4000-5000? Not to mention the fact some of these ships are more modern compared to Manticores so would have access to improved equipment, if there has been any improvements. Game is forcing Manticore, a ship that is useless beyond the first few engagements where you don't have access to better ships, to you in order to get a decent DRADIS range. Just because of this reason I'm being gamey and load back to before the mission starts after I learn the composition and placement of enemy ships. Launching opening torpedo salvoes with several ships on slow targets like cerberuses, basestars etc. from the furthest place of the map is quite satisfying.

[Half Phased]

Balancing factor. Battlestars have far more firepower and durability, so their shorter dradis range is part of their balance.

You can look at this way, the manticore has been used as a law enforcement vessel, so tracking and hunting down pirates and smugglers. It’d need a good sensor array to do that.

As for “I’m forced to use a manticore” look into the standard raptor squadron. An hangar bay with a raptor renders the manticore’s dradis range obsolete.

[Abaçı]

Well, the munition spewing factory that is Argos can have 8700 range so it can start sending cluster nukes your way long before you can even spot it so balance is not really an argument. As for Raptors, their 4000 range is still 4000 range. In order to identify a target that is 8000 away from my hangared ship, either the raptor must fly 4000 away from the safety of my fleet, sacrificing a hangar spot for a suicidal DRADIS mission or risk my own fighters in defence of the said raptor against enemy fighters, which may again, result in sacrificing hangar spots for just DRADIS range if i lose squadrons and enemy suffers no squadron losses or if my squadrons manage to get back, lose time in their repair and reinforcement.

[Rem]

If you are loosing raptors scouting, you are doing it wrong. Take your raptors on the vertical, either above or bellow, and they should survive easily.

If the cylon raiders go after the raptors, just pull them back and have your vipers come up behind. Easy kills with no losses. If they go after your vipers, no problem.

Either way, because of the cap on the maximum amount that a fighter can go vertcal in a single turn, the raiders should not be able to catch them, unless you do something silly like fly directly towards them.

[Khan Boyzitbig of Mercia]

The Manticore is a scout ship anyway when in a military fleet and it does a good job of that.

If you think that enemy ship over there is gonna spam cluster nukes at you your battlestars are virtually immune thanks to the flak wall they can throw up, and the only way a basestar can hit you with nukes before you can bring up the wall is if it launches inside your DRADIS range anyway.

You will easily ID some Cylon ships from their behaviour outside DRADIS range over time, and you will usually win a fighter battle if you let them come to you which leaves the Cylon fleet exposed to any scouts or fighter swarms you have left.

[Abaçı]

Originally posted by Khan Boyzitbig of Mercia:

The Manticore is a scout ship anyway when in a military fleet and it does a good job of that.

If you think that enemy ship over there is gonna spam cluster nukes at you your battlestars are virtually immune thanks to the flak wall they can throw up, and the only way a basestar can hit you with nukes before you can bring up the wall is if it launches inside your DRADIS range anyway.

You will easily ID some Cylon ships from their behaviour outside DRADIS range over time, and you will usually win a fighter battle if you let them come to you which leaves the Cylon fleet exposed to any scouts or fighter swarms you have left.

You can guess some some of the ships but can't get a lock on to target them with guided missiles, ap, etc. Torpedoeing slower targets sure does work as I said in the first post. In my first playthrough I'd send a manticore with a nuke rushing to scout and nuke a valuable target and try to get it back behind the lines with mine/fighter cover which mostly ended in manticore's loss but giving me locks some turns before so I can send guided stuff their way. You can open flak and destroy incoming missiles but it leaves you incapable of firing missiles yourself, fire behind the flak screen and youur missiles would get destroyed as well, peek behind the flak to get a shot and you may get missiled if you don't time it right. Using the flak also means you'll face your side to the enemy and won't be able to use those frontal artillery.

[Half Phased]

Originally posted by Abaçı:

Well, the munition spewing factory that is Argos can have 8700 range so it can start sending cluster nukes your way long before you can even spot it so balance is not really an argument. As for Raptors, their 4000 range is still 4000 range. In order to identify a target that is 8000 away from my hangared ship, either the raptor must fly 4000 away from the safety of my fleet, sacrificing a hangar spot for a suicidal DRADIS mission or risk my own fighters in defence of the said raptor against enemy fighters, which may again, result in sacrificing hangar spots for just DRADIS range if i lose squadrons and enemy suffers no squadron losses or if my squadrons manage to get back, lose time in their repair and reinforcement.

Yes, and the Argos wants to spend a battle going away from the enemy rather than towards it. Also, comparing cylon dradis to colonial is a poor comparison, the humble nemesis caps out at about 12K dradis range. All other cylon ships are basically irrelevant in terms of dradis at that point.

An expendable raptor is a far better choice than a manticore that costs far more and actually has to be built. Use raptors, they are the best scouts in colonial fleet. And their boarding ability lets them land on a ship and be safe from enemy fighters.

As an additional note, what do you think the support slot on the atlas and Jupiters are for?

[Abaçı]

Originally posted by Half Phased:

Originally posted by Abaçı:

Well, the munition spewing factory that is Argos can have 8700 range so it can start sending cluster nukes your way long before you can even spot it so balance is not really an argument. As for Raptors, their 4000 range is still 4000 range. In order to identify a target that is 8000 away from my hangared ship, either the raptor must fly 4000 away from the safety of my fleet, sacrificing a hangar spot for a suicidal DRADIS mission or risk my own fighters in defence of the said raptor against enemy fighters, which may again, result in sacrificing hangar spots for just DRADIS range if i lose squadrons and enemy suffers no squadron losses or if my squadrons manage to get back, lose time in their repair and reinforcement.

Yes, and the Argos wants to spend a battle going away from the enemy rather than towards it. Also, comparing cylon dradis to colonial is a poor comparison, the humble nemesis caps out at about 12K dradis range. All other cylon ships are basically irrelevant in terms of dradis at that point.

An expendable raptor is a far better choice than a manticore that costs far more and actually has to be built. Use raptors, they are the best scouts in colonial fleet. And their boarding ability lets them land on a ship and be safe from enemy fighters.

As an additional note, what do you think the support slot on the atlas and Jupiters are for?

I didn't use Nemesis for comparison on purpose, since it's nowhere near on par with a battlestar. Using suicidal Manticores was on my first playthrough and it wasn't bad either except being so costly even if Manticore survived: Reveal enemy, send a nuke to cripple a capital or even take it out if it's a smaller one, armor piercer or guided missile from the rest of the fleet focuses on another ship to take it out and since the main body of your fleet is so far away from the enemy you can make another salvo from all your ships, Manticore included if it survives and gets celestra supplied.
As for support slot... I used sweepers in my first playthrough but have since found them to be of little use. Chaff is great, even more useful than flak so that you can fire missiles but using an assault raptor seems to be better for the battle. I take a few fighters to engage with flak weakened raiders or raptor defense and take plenty of assault raptors. A swarm of those deal massive damage to enemy capitals and those that survive the initial sortie can just rearm and reengage. Defender and Atlas have all their slots with Assault Raptors and not fighters. My two battlestars both have their support slots occupied with Assault Raptors and depending on engagement perhaps one have the fighter slots as well.

[twosnark]

I am not much of a missile guy - - - firing rates are too low; and battlestar flak kinda neuters those ships as missile carriers.

I don't generally favor torps in campaigns - - - at Admiral/fleet admiral level; the restock costs seem to eat me alive. Rarely use nukes for the same reason. Also; my biggest challenge tends to be super low flying Revenants and Archanes. . . and those puppies are too maneuverable to hit with torps anyway.

Raptors: I don't have enough slots to waste on Raptors! I find that using an *assault raptor* is the way to go. Gives a reasonable punch with missiles; and painting is a fun feature.

[Geordy]

Here's a thought: put a technologist on your battlestar and you can see even farther than the Manticore. Case closed :D

[Abaçı]

Originally posted by Geordy:

Here's a thought: put a technologist on your battlestar and you can see even farther than the Manticore. Case closed :D

Originally posted by Geordy:

Here's a thought: put a technologist on your battlestar and you can see even farther than the Manticore. Case closed :D

Battlestars have what? 4000 range? Perk doesn't give %75 range to get on par with manticore (7000)

[Khan Boyzitbig of Mercia]

Originally posted by Abaçı:

Originally posted by Geordy:

Here's a thought: put a technologist on your battlestar and you can see even farther than the Manticore. Case closed :D

Originally posted by Geordy:

Here's a thought: put a technologist on your battlestar and you can see even farther than the Manticore. Case closed :D

Battlestars have what? 4000 range? Perk doesn't give %75 range to get on par with manticore (7000)

Artemis has 5k, Jupiter has 4k. An Artemis in the middle of a Jupiter group will be able to hit close enough to manticore range for DRADIS, fighters will be more useful in a heavy fleet for scouting.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by Half Phased:

As for “I’m forced to use a manticore” look into the standard raptor squadron. An hangar bay with a raptor renders the manticore’s dradis range obsolete.

Why would you use raptors for scouting rather than regular vipers? Viper has the shorter vision range, but not by much, and it gets to where it needs to go much faster than the raptor, and then it can also fight off enemy fighter squadrons or sit behind enemy capitals and slowly buzzsaw them.

[Half Phased]

Originally posted by Gracey Face:

Originally posted by Half Phased:

As for “I’m forced to use a manticore” look into the standard raptor squadron. An hangar bay with a raptor renders the manticore’s dradis range obsolete.

Why would you use raptors for scouting rather than regular vipers? Viper has the shorter vision range, but not by much, and it gets to where it needs to go much faster than the raptor, and then it can also fight off enemy fighter squadrons or sit behind enemy capitals and slowly buzzsaw them.

Sending your vipers out from your fleet is a recipe for getting them torn to shreds by the cylon raiders with supporting fire from their ships, once basestar variants start to appear.

The standard raptor is faster than the viper mk1 and not that much slower than the mk2. In addition, it can be brought in support slots, meaning that a scouting raptor does not need to impact the power of your airwing.

Finally, the raptors boarding mechanic means it can land on a cylon vessel and become immune to the enemy airwing, allowing it to hop from ship to ship, to gradually scout the enemy fleet, or to hitch a ride back to the colonial fleet in safety.

[Abaçı]

Originally posted by Khan Boyzitbig of Mercia:

Originally posted by Abaçı:

Battlestars have what? 4000 range? Perk doesn't give %75 range to get on par with manticore (7000)

Artemis has 5k, Jupiter has 4k. An Artemis in the middle of a Jupiter group will be able to hit close enough to manticore range for DRADIS, fighters will be more useful in a heavy fleet for scouting.

In my experience, Artemises are quite fragile. Even more fragile than a Minerva which is less armored.

[twosnark]

The artie is NOT fragile; BUT. . . it does have an Achilles heel: No real bottom fire power. Revenants and Archanes coming in low will chew these ships up. If I see low fliers. . . I rarely can get an Artie to dive low enough to get firepower to bear. (best teamed with some ships that have bottom firepower)