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No, it was actually around my own ships, lol. I tried to take the incoming Raiders out with flak from my Jupiter but they slipped under it and attacked my fighters which I had stationed behind the BS for protection, then it got messy.
Once you have IFF incoming Cylon Raiders, prioritize the Raiders, not the prototypes. You will have to deal with the Prototypes, but they are not your priority.
You would be better off attacking the Heavy Raiders first rather than the Prototypes, unless you want to put your Battlestars on defensive to deal with boarders.
Once your Vipers have defeated your specified Raider targets, they will move on to attack the next available target. But make sure you kill all the Raiders first. They are the superior Cylon enemy and your primary Raider threat.
As far as the battle you talked about, I've played this game for 3 years and over 1,700 hours and have beaten everything up through the Admiral level, but I have never seen anything like you report. Ten Viper squadrons should be able to take six Raider squadrons out in a few turns, particularly if you double up on the closest targets.
Sure they will suffer casualties, but it should be nothing like you describe. There is some other factor - or factors - involved there other than just Raiders. Look closely in future battles to see what might be happening.
I agree; it is always better to specifically target a raider group than have a generic "defend" order. I only use "defend" to either keep the fighters out of the way. . .or to actually go on active missile defense.
When fighting around my ships, I generally have lighter ships focus target one group of raiders. . and have the vipers target another group. Generally, I try to triple team each raider group to get the groups off the board as quickly as possible.
I always try to keep the fighter furball close to my lighter ships, as the frigates can really unbalance the odds in your favor
With any luck, most of the Raiders and Prototypes are gone by the time the heavy raiders show up. I consider those priority targets for vipers. . .hate to waste ship guns on them. And getting boarded is usually VERY inconvenient; as it tends to happen when the gunships are showing up; and I need the battlestars in max offensive posture at that point
Also. . . I "think" using "paint" with assault raptors yields good results. (at least that's my experience) (Note: if there are Cylon gunships closing in, the assault raptors preferentially paint those so the battlestars can quickly dispose of them)
I was trying out new fleet compositions now I have unlocked the Jupiter. I had two of those and two Artemis in this particular fleet along with the Daidalos which got me up to ten Viper squadrons. The Cylons had two Cerberus, four Revenants and a couple of Nemesis. I put up the flak wall on both Jupiters to see how effective it was, parked my other ships behind it and had my Vipers on defence of those other ships and the shipyard other than the couple I sent out to take down the two Heavy Raiders that came in behind a Raider screen. I figured any Raiders that survived the flak eight fully equipped Viper squadrons should be able to handle.
To be honest I took my eye off the ball for a while focusing on manoeuvring my ships lower to shoot guns and missiles under the flak at the Cylon ships and hoped the large flak wall would kill the Raiders as the last time I checked they seemed to be flying right toward my Jupiters. Next thing I know I hear 'squadron has gone dark' and checked my Vipers to find three had already vanished and the rest were taking hits bad while the Cylons seemed to be just fine for the most part. I had assumed if you put a Viper on defend a ship that it would focus on taking out any Raiders that then attacked said ship. I didn't know you had to micromanage them by clicking on focus attack and then find the Raider and click on that. It was a mess of a furball, very tight action with the ships all over each other and the second I saw how badly my fighters were doing I had the BS's turn their point defence guns on the Raiders which won the day.
But this action aside, I had noticed in many other fights that when I sent off a viper squadron to take on a Cylon squadron one on one my guys tended to come off worse, even if in the no mans land between the two fleets. As I said in my original statement I wondered if perhaps the learning curve of the game made the Raiders better and better the further you got in the campaign, to make it more of a challenge?
Other than that, Raider strength primarily depends on numbers.
Vipers get better early on when the Mark II becomes available and later the Mark VII (which then only applies to Anabasis, Multiplayer and Skirmish) and, of course, there are officer buffs that will increase the efficiency of the Vipers. Vipers stationed aboard the Berserk and the Atlas have more efficient "squad evade" than those stationed aboard Battlestars and other ships unless there are compensating officer buffs.
Having played the game all the way through, I can tell you that - one on one - Raiders don't ever reach the point to where they can kill Vipers with a high level of efficiency unless they greatly outnumber the Vipers
You mentioned there were four Revenants in the opposing Cylon fleet. If they were anywhere nearby, that factor probably accounts for the destruction of most of your Vipers, not the Raiders.
There is a lot going on in this game and it takes time and experience to learn all that is possible. I now have almost 1,800 hours in over three years and I still don't know it all .
If you want hostile squadrons dead, tell your Vipers to attack them. No defend orders, no defend at area orders, no move orders.
Attack.
If you want full efficiency from your Vipers, you tell them to attack a fresh squadron target every single turn until the squadron brawl is over, to guarantee one squadron gets rapidly focused down every turn, cutting down return fire from Raiders. Vipers are not something you give a defend order over one of your ships and forget about.
One of these days I'm gonna have to update my SP guide, because there's some fundamentals that are getting lost by the newer players and some seriously bad habits/ideas developing.
"Vipers can't take on Raiders" "BS-Arty sucks" "Flak is worthless"
Man, I'm getting vietnam-style flashbacks of reviewer-footage on game release that claimed the Artemis sucked... Because he was placing the ship ABOVE hostile targets.
I hear you on Revenants - - but in my games I am not seeing the Revenants as a serious viper threat. Yes - - I take some minor losses; but not enough to matter (The Ceretas is another matter).
I am not as convinced that the vipers are as effective as all that; but I find I can be victorious if I manage the vipers properly (i.e. keep them back initially to ensure furball is over my fleet; cover with friendly PDC fire; aggressively use attack, focus fire, and painting from Assault raptors). Maybe I am doing the 1:1 brawls wrong - - I need to experiment.
As for squadron evade - - Hmmm. Late game I favor adamants over beserks for the missile slot. I rarely have more than one beserk in a fleet (at the 7000/8000 pt level). I avoid the Atlas; as it tends to be too slow for my style of play. What other buffs should I be looking to have?
Soon I plan to play the game all the way through again so I can try out some new fleet arrangements, ships and tactics; things I never tried in the past because I didn't think they could win..or even survive.
So, I plan to play on the Commander level and try not to rely on fleet compositions that have let me beat the entire game through the Admiral level in the past.
I hope to learn more; more than just knowing I can clean the board with Jupiters, Janus cruisers, Atlas, Heracles, Minotaurs and Celestras. I want to be able to beat it with a better variety of ships and I need to learn more about these officer buffs. So far, I've never used female officers and some of them may have the skills that will be badly needed this time around.
I also need to learn how to use a larger variety of weapons; some weapons I have never tried. I know the ones that are most effective, but It will be fun and informative to learn how to use them all....if I survive the experience. I'm going to park the Jupiters - except the Galactica, of course - and try to make it through with only Artemis and Minervas as far as battlestars go.
I am gender neutral in my officers. . .is there a difference? I also bias towards the officers that yield highest fleet points. Necessary, as I like to run the 1st season with 6-8 full strength fleets (2-3 Alpha, 2-3 Beta, 1 Gamma, 1 Delta)
in my first runs through most of the campaigns, I built up multiple fleets with 4 Battlestars. Fleets with 9 or 10 squadrons were common. At the end. . .I had a system. And the fleets faired well with opposing 9-10K Cylon fleets. I feel I mastered it on "Admiral".
I dabbled with Debris mines, nukes, raptors and nukes. They just didn't seem effective enough to bother. Torps are ok. . .handy even. . . .but the resupply costs were starting to eat me alive in the campaigns so eventually I reverted back to guided missiles across the board.
Now, in my current run on Sin&Sacrifice, I am challenging myself to make do with 2xBattlestars max per fleet; 7000 pts. This is making me take a few cruisers . . . .enjoying the Minotaurs and Hercules alot. Also. . .with the limit of 7000. . I am finding that few Cylon fleets are coming in at 8000+. . . which makes for good times ;)
A fleet with 2 x Herc, 2 x Artie with a pair of frigates is nothing to sneeze at. I have some fleets with 1 x Minerva, 1 x Artie, 1 x Herc, 3xAdamant. . .which has "better" missile power. . .but frankly, I am not a missile guy and I think this lineup has two many small vulnerable ships. It still can kick butt. ;)
Have not really fought with the missile heavy fleets -Rangers and Janii- Almost scared; as it will likely force me to "identify" enemy gunships sooner than I want. I tend to be Gun Heavy (Minotaur and Herc) As of now. . .I sometimes gun down one or two incomers BEFORE identifying them (while my limited vipers and frigates are dealing with the Raider Swarm). Maybe next campaign I will try to go Janus Heavy.
As I have said elsewhere. . . I have used the Atlas. It's nice. . .but really is waaaaay too slow. The Jupiters are nice. . . .I have one or two fleets (of 8) with them. . . but honestly, they just seem to suck up too many points in the fleet for the firepower they add. Most of the time, I find that the Cylons spam those ships with ordinance; so I can't even fully take advanatage of the firepower. (Nothing makes me happier than having the Cyclons spam a Herc with munitions. (which goes under flak wall at -7 posture) . . . which leaves the arties to wreak Havoc at +7)
For me, Admiral level is an adequate challenge. I tried fleet admiral once or twice. . . and quickly found I was not worthy. Too many enemies spawned way too close. Got scared and restarted the campaign ;)
As far as the Fleet Admiral level, I have beat Deadlock/Broken Alliance and Sin and Sacrifice on Fleet Admiral, but I don't care to play that level any more because it forces you to fight defensively too much and I've never really cared for that.
I like a good fight where I can play both offense and defensive; a good equal match. Always having to play defense is just too much of a grind..... and not much fun. It's too much like Anabasis used to be.
PS. When using the Atlas, I left it on Boost almost all the time. I never slowed it down except to engage a Cylon ship nearby with its Heavy Turrets. If not for the Atlas squadrons, I would not use it at all.