Flak, is it worth the bother?

[garry619]

So flak sounds like a great asset and it looks really cool in the show when the Galactica lets lose, but in the game is it worth even bothering with?

It's supposed to deal with incoming missiles, which it does, and incoming raiders, which it does. However I am finding the Cylons, oddly enough, tend not to send streams of missiles at my Battlestars. They tend to go for my Minotaurs, Adamants, Rangers or Manticores. The raiders avoid the flak totally flying around it because, again, they go for the other ships rather than messing with a battlestar. In fact I tend to find the flak hurts my own fighters more than it hurts the enemy in any way.

So I guess my question is this, is there a good way to use it?

[Half Phased]

Yes. Keep the ships you want to protect with the flak field on the opposite side of the flak to the enemy.

That way all the missiles and raiders have to fly through the flak field to get at your other ships. While the Artemis has a small flak field that can cover itself and a few ships behind it, the Jupiter’s have the largest flak fields in the entire game and make protecting ships easy.

Other solutions can be to switch to using the Heracles as your primary gunship, rather than the Minotaur, for its own flak field

Later on into the base campaign + BA you get access to the atlas which really doesn’t care about getting hit, and along with the Minerva to bring both flak and oppressive gun power.

[Chariot]

Yes.

[USS Midway veteran]

Be careful that you do not spread your fleet too thin. You can expect missiles and torpedo attacks on ships that are positioned in advance of your fleet's core (Battlestars?) or flying too high above or below ... or those that are very vulnerable like Manticores and Celestras. Sometimes the Cylons will attack the most vulnerable ships in your fleet first, particularly when overexposed.

If your battlestar flak is damaging your Vipers, it is probably because you are misusing one or both of them. Before flak is engaged, make sure your Vipers have been launched and deployed or positioned as needed.

.

[garry619]

Originally posted by Half Phased:

Yes. Keep the ships you want to protect with the flak field on the opposite side of the flak to the enemy.

That way all the missiles and raiders have to fly through the flak field to get at your other ships. While the Artemis has a small flak field that can cover itself and a few ships behind it, the Jupiter’s have the largest flak fields in the entire game and make protecting ships easy.

Other solutions can be to switch to using the Heracles as your primary gunship, rather than the Minotaur, for its own flak field

Later on into the base campaign + BA you get access to the atlas which really doesn’t care about getting hit, and along with the Minerva to bring both flak and oppressive gun power.

Only got Artemis BS right now and they are slow to turn when you see the missiles coming, lol. On those few times a Cylon had the temerity to fire them that is. So I find the missiles hit the ship before it's flak comes into play. Plus turning the side of the ship to the Cylons means I'm not getting into gun range of them as they come barrelling in at my Fleet. And I think I read that the guns on the sides of the BS don't fire if you have flak going?

I usually have my Fleet all heading toward the Cylons in a frontal attack so I can quickly get into gun range and use my Minotaurs and the BS artillery and big guns. If I had the majority of the fleet behind my BS to protect it with the flak it would leave the BS out front taking the pounding from the Cylons while my other ships stay back and can't shoot because, I assume, the BS would be in the way of their guns and missiles ... tricky tactically, lol.

[garry619]

Originally posted by USS Midway veteran:

Be careful that you do not spread your fleet too thin. You can expect missiles and torpedo attacks on ships that are positioned in advance of your main fleet or flying too high above or below your battlestars.... or those that are very vulnerable like Manticores and Celestras. Sometimes the Cylons will attack the most vulnerable ships in your fleet first, particularly when overexposed.

If your battlestar flak is extensively damaging your Vipers, it is because you are misusing one or both of them. Before flak is engaged, make sure your Vipers have been launched and deployed or positioned as needed.

I have noticed my high flying Rangers get picked on a lot with missile attacks aimed at them. So all my ships have to be on the same level then? Doesn't that make it hard for them to fire missiles at the enemy if friendly ships are on the same level as them and in front? Guns too I assume have to have a clear line of fire or friendly fire ensues? I tend to tell the vipers to protect other ships, not my BS, and yet they still seem to wander into the flak for some reason. I can't imagine what kind of stupid a pilot would need to be to fly into flak but there you go, they do <shrugs>

[Lochdanon]

yes. i use it all the time.

[Half Phased]

Originally posted by garry619:

Originally posted by Half Phased:

Yes. Keep the ships you want to protect with the flak field on the opposite side of the flak to the enemy.

That way all the missiles and raiders have to fly through the flak field to get at your other ships. While the Artemis has a small flak field that can cover itself and a few ships behind it, the Jupiter’s have the largest flak fields in the entire game and make protecting ships easy.

Other solutions can be to switch to using the Heracles as your primary gunship, rather than the Minotaur, for its own flak field

Later on into the base campaign + BA you get access to the atlas which really doesn’t care about getting hit, and along with the Minerva to bring both flak and oppressive gun power.

Only got Artemis BS right now and they are slow to turn when you see the missiles coming, lol. On those few times a Cylon had the temerity to fire them that is. So I find the missiles hit the ship before it's flak comes into play. Plus turning the side of the ship to the Cylons means I'm not getting into gun range of them as they come barrelling in at my Fleet. And I think I read that the guns on the sides of the BS don't fire if you have flak going?

I usually have my Fleet all heading toward the Cylons in a frontal attack so I can quickly get into gun range and use my Minotaurs and the BS artillery and big guns. If I had the majority of the fleet behind my BS to protect it with the flak it would leave the BS out front taking the pounding from the Cylons while my other ships stay back and can't shoot because, I assume, the BS would be in the way of their guns and missiles ... tricky tactically, lol.

Most of the time you should be approaching the enemy at angle, rather than head on, such that you don’t have to turn to use flak. The AI is not smart enough to kite the 200m gun range it has over you at +4 atk and once you get beyond +4, you actually have range parity or greater range.

Yes, PDCs do shut down, but losing 8 PDCs damage output is preferable to taking massive amounts of munitions damage.

You can stack ships on top of the Artemis so that they’re protected, without losing range, and typically the Artemis is durable enough to hold out against revenants until it’s escorts kill revenants.

[Half Phased]

If you want to charge head first at the enemy and still have flak protection, you can “self flak” by positioning two Artemis such that they’re inside each other’s flak fields. Just be warned, you have to launch vipers before you engage the flak fields and cannot launch munitions whilst doing this.

[garry619]

Originally posted by Half Phased:

If you want to charge head first at the enemy and still have flak protection, you can “self flak” by positioning two Artemis such that they’re inside each other’s flak fields. Just be warned, you have to launch vipers before you engage the flak fields and cannot launch munitions whilst doing this.

Wouldn't that cause damage to the ships inside the flak fields though? Or is flak so light it just pings off their armour? :)

[garry619]

Originally posted by Half Phased:

Originally posted by garry619:

Only got Artemis BS right now and they are slow to turn when you see the missiles coming, lol. On those few times a Cylon had the temerity to fire them that is. So I find the missiles hit the ship before it's flak comes into play. Plus turning the side of the ship to the Cylons means I'm not getting into gun range of them as they come barrelling in at my Fleet. And I think I read that the guns on the sides of the BS don't fire if you have flak going?

I usually have my Fleet all heading toward the Cylons in a frontal attack so I can quickly get into gun range and use my Minotaurs and the BS artillery and big guns. If I had the majority of the fleet behind my BS to protect it with the flak it would leave the BS out front taking the pounding from the Cylons while my other ships stay back and can't shoot because, I assume, the BS would be in the way of their guns and missiles ... tricky tactically, lol.

Most of the time you should be approaching the enemy at angle, rather than head on, such that you don’t have to turn to use flak. The AI is not smart enough to kite the 200m gun range it has over you at +4 atk and once you get beyond +4, you actually have range parity or greater range.

Yes, PDCs do shut down, but losing 8 PDCs damage output is preferable to taking massive amounts of munitions damage.

You can stack ships on top of the Artemis so that they’re protected, without losing range, and typically the Artemis is durable enough to hold out against revenants until it’s escorts kill revenants.

I do stack Adamants and Manticores because they don't have top firing weapons, but if you stack Artemis wouldn't their top mounted artillery hit the ship above them? I mean you'd have to keep them pretty tight to the Artemis to make use of it's flak field, right?

[Half Phased]

Originally posted by garry619:

Originally posted by Half Phased:

If you want to charge head first at the enemy and still have flak protection, you can “self flak” by positioning two Artemis such that they’re inside each other’s flak fields. Just be warned, you have to launch vipers before you engage the flak fields and cannot launch munitions whilst doing this.

Wouldn't that cause damage to the ships inside the flak fields though? Or is flak so light it just pings off their armour? :)

The damage to the armour of the ships is negligible, 1-3 per turn. Once the armour is stripped the hull takes a lot of damage, but as long as the armour is intact it’s not a problem.

[Half Phased]

Originally posted by garry619:

Originally posted by Half Phased:

Most of the time you should be approaching the enemy at angle, rather than head on, such that you don’t have to turn to use flak. The AI is not smart enough to kite the 200m gun range it has over you at +4 atk and once you get beyond +4, you actually have range parity or greater range.

Yes, PDCs do shut down, but losing 8 PDCs damage output is preferable to taking massive amounts of munitions damage.

You can stack ships on top of the Artemis so that they’re protected, without losing range, and typically the Artemis is durable enough to hold out against revenants until it’s escorts kill revenants.

I do stack Adamants and Manticores because they don't have top firing weapons, but if you stack Artemis wouldn't their top mounted artillery hit the ship above them? I mean you'd have to keep them pretty tight to the Artemis to make use of it's flak field, right?

Adamants and manticores are poor ships to stack, due their weapon arcs not matching.

You can position a ship above the Artemis, as long as the vertical angle is not too great the artemis can still fire BA at enemies.

[twosnark]

Huh. . . . .charging straight in?

That scares me very much. That means the Cylons are hitting me with Guns, Raiders, and munitions all at the same time. <<gulp>>. Not doing that! and yes. . . a battlestar broadside is not dealing full damage. . but is only taking minimal munitions damage. . . I can take that trade ;)

A fleet without flak. . .is basically a fleet of torpedo magnets about to turn into a fleet of space debris.

At the start, I generally RUN and RUN HARD for a few turns to build distance. . .I have been trying to duck the first round of the inevitable torps, then turn in to FLAK the second round of torps. Adamants, Celestras and beserks sit low and right behind the Gun Line (Battlestars, Hercs, Minataurs).

The raiders are generally just entering gun range at this point, with the cylon gun line further behind. The vipers and raptors are usually set to DEFEND one of the rear ships. . .to keep them out of the initial fight. With this setup; toaster munitions are inevitably going to be concentrated on just one (maybe two) of the gunline ships. . . and Flak will keep the ship alive with a posture between -2 and +2. Raiders will also be coming level with the fleet. The rest of the fleet is set to max offense, targeting raiders with more than 50% strength. Vipers are used against raiders above 20% strength (10 pts). Below 20%, raiders tend to retreat and I ignore them to focus on immediate threats. (NOTE: Heavy raiders get special attention from the vipers!)

With a 7,000pt fleet, I find I can reduce the incoming horde by 2-3 squadrons a turn.
After two or three turns of raider reduction; I find the Cylon gun line getting uncomfortably close (even if not always identified). At this point, I start switching the gun line to focus down the incomers, one at a time. You don't have to identify a ship to blow it up with Battlestar artillery. :)

Once the raiders are dealt with, the vipers and raiders are spread out to start identifying; harassing; painting targets; and I try to get ships from the flak wall to start launching munitions.

Scariest recent mission: 2 Artie; 2 Herc; Beserk, Adament Celestra. . .vs 3 (or was it 4?) Ceratas, 3 Phobos, 3 Basestar. The raider swarm was large. . .and the toasters LED with heavy raiders, which threw me off. Then BLAM, in the middle of the raider swarm, BLAM , up pops a Phobos at point blank which promptly unloads missiles into a Herc and starts hacking the Armory. Just as I am mopping that mess up. . . I suddenly realize that the next comers are a pair of coordinating frakking armor eating ceratas. Fortunately, the raiders are just about done at this point, and I can disassemble the Ceretas in peace and quiet, with the soothing pitter patter of torps and nukes raining upon a Battlestar flak barrage.

[ShadowXV]

I have always use Flak with my Battlestars of course i tend to send my Vipers off to fight or land them then turn it on when i either see or know the Cylons will do the mother of all spam attack

[USS Midway veteran]

Originally posted by garry619:

Originally posted by USS Midway veteran:

Be careful that you do not spread your fleet too thin. You can expect missiles and torpedo attacks on ships that are positioned in advance of your main fleet or flying too high above or below your battlestars.... or those that are very vulnerable like Manticores and Celestras. Sometimes the Cylons will attack the most vulnerable ships in your fleet first, particularly when overexposed.

If your battlestar flak is extensively damaging your Vipers, it is because you are misusing one or both of them. Before flak is engaged, make sure your Vipers have been launched and deployed or positioned as needed.

I have noticed my high flying Rangers get picked on a lot with missile attacks aimed at them. So all my ships have to be on the same level then? Doesn't that make it hard for them to fire missiles at the enemy if friendly ships are on the same level as them and in front? Guns too I assume have to have a clear line of fire or friendly fire ensues? I tend to tell the vipers to protect other ships, not my BS, and yet they still seem to wander into the flak for some reason. I can't imagine what kind of stupid a pilot would need to be to fly into flak but there you go, they do <shrugs>

Place your Rangers to the rear of your Battlestars and just enough above them to avoid firing their missiles through the flak, should you be using it. They should not be on the same level, but don't let them hover too far up. If you spot any torpedoes or missiles headed your way, you can attempt to use flak shields to protect your Rangers if they are not flying too high.


(I also suggest you switch those Rangers for Janus cruisers as soon as possible. The Janus has thick armor and can take a lot of punishment.)

It is a good idea to not assign Vipers to protect any ship with flak. It's easy to forget they are there and you may wind up killing them should you have to use flak to defend that ship.

One more tip on protecting your Rangers, try to keep them in a constant up and down motion. You won't be able to duck guided missiles, but you could possibly avoid a lot of torpedoes.

Vipers have been programmed to avoid flak, but if you deploy them through a flak shield on the way to a target, they will fly right through it. Friendly fire is a stark reality in this game.