AI Controlled Modern Basestars are USELESS

[RaftermanNZ]

This game has a great concept, awesome feel, and fun strategy element to it... I was really excited to dive into bigger fleets and modern ships with the new update.

I've played a few matches pitting some Battlestars vs Modern Basestars and I've learned that the battles will always end up with you winning as long as you shoot flak and target fighters.

That's it.

AI just spams missiles into your flak until they run out. After they run out, they're harmless and you can focus only on whatever fighters get thrown your way.

I played as a single Jupiter class ship and a Mercury vs an overwelming force of modern basestars, wanted to recreate the Battle of Caprica.

Initially I didn't catch on to the fighters being the only ones that were doing damage to me. My Vipers ended up being extremely useless because they either flew into my own flak, or were easily destroyed by ai fighters. Soon, I lost my Mercury class ship shortly after taking out a single basestar.

With the Jupiter limping with damage, it became clear the basestars had run out of missiles and all I had to do was fight off the fighters. After wiping out all of their squadrons I just one by one picked off four more basestars with nothing but 18 hit points left on my hull.

Replaying the mission I could see that the basestars randomly jump, randomly drift around, and fire missiles into each other. They don't even react to being in a gas cloud that immediately detonates their missiles either.

Maybe my experience might be a bit better in multiplayer, but between the extremely terrible autocam (does the battles a huge disservice) and the useless Basestars, the game's falling very flat. :(

[Palpat]

The AI has never really learned how to bypass flak by changing position. It has sadly been the case for 3 years. I guess in Multi things are different. In solo play, basestar (any kind, be they regular, Argos or modern) vs Battlestar ends with a battlestar victory in the hand of a decent player.

As for the modern basestar, well, just like in the show : they are useless against a well positionned battlestar (see Ragnar Anchorage battle) and said battlestar will tore them apart if the opportunity arises.

As for your battle :
keep your viper behind your ship & flag screen using the "move" order. This should also prevent them to run after incoming ordinance through the flak.
Let your flak shield soften the incoming raiders. if you can add some debris mine, things will be even better.

Then, when raider are past your flak, attack them. Micromanaging can be a good idea, depending on the situation.

[RaftermanNZ]

Originally posted by Palpat:

The AI has never really learned how to bypass flak by changing position. It has sadly been the case for 3 years. I guess in Multi things are different. In solo play, basestar (any kind, be they regular, Argos or modern) vs Battlestar ends with a battlestar victory in the hand of a decent player.

As for the modern basestar, well, just like in the show : they are useless against a well positionned battlestar (see Ragnar Anchorage battle) and said battlestar will tore them apart if the opportunity arises.

As for your battle :
keep your viper behind your ship & flag screen using the "move" order. This should also prevent them to run after incoming ordinance through the flak.
Let your flak shield soften the incoming raiders. if you can add some debris mine, things will be even better.

Then, when raider are past your flak, attack them. Micromanaging can be a good idea, depending on the situation.

Thanks for the viper tips, I'll try that. I've started to use the move order more and more.

I actually might start pitting battlestars vs battlestars.

After I started these battles with the basestars it got me thinking about the show and how terrible basestars and the cylons actually were at waging war. Aside from the hacking, the nukes are the only thing that won them anything.

I love the show, but there are a lot of things that... don't make sense. Like the battle of Caprica was strategically questionable in a a lot of ways.

Anyways, yeah if the ai had just a tad bit more code to give them more decision power on how they jump basestars, it would be a different story. But flak essentially stops them in their tracks.

When I had a massive battlestars vs battlestars, that was a lot more of a challenge. Put the same fleet config against each other and I won by a margin of a single battlestar.

Anyways, I love this game, nothing gets close to it. I might try multiplayer soon, but I might get roasted.

[phily]

That's actually pretty lore friendly though, the modern Basestars in the show were very very missile centric. I mean we remember the mini-series, Galactica basically sat in front of the Basestars for a good few minutes with their flak wall up while the Vipers provided fighter cover for the civilian ships. Basestars being fairly useless was 100% always a thing in the show, the only time they were able to do serious damage was surprise attacks (like when they got Pegasus in a trap).

[USS Midway veteran]

Carriers, even today with aircraft carriers - like the USS Midway that I was on - depend on aircraft for primary attack and defense without much focus on other weaponry. Cylon Basestars are essentially carriers- not carrier-battleships - like a battlestar. They play their part and - from what you said - they almost kicked your butt.

Carriers have to depend on accompanying cruisers, destroyers, submarines and other ships...it's a team effort. Carriers - such as the Cylon basestar - are never meant to fight alone in the "real" world. (Of course, they do so in the series for dramatic effect, not based on reality, which did not include other Cylon ships.)

If you want more of a fight, throw in three or four Revenants with those basestars....that will be a lot of fun.

[Palpat]

Also, in terms of "in universe explanations", Cylon's design choice is quite obvious : they were planning on a devastating first strike without much fighting. They needed a striking plateform, not a battleship as Colonial fleet was supposed to be destroyed save for a few lucky units. And so it was.

It was, let's say, a bet of all or nothing : either the surprise attack+virus succeeds and you do not need a brawling ship, either it fails and you are in for a lost war.

[RaftermanNZ]

Originally posted by Palpat:

Also, in terms of "in universe explanations", Cylon's design choice is quite obvious : they were planning on a devastating first strike without much fighting. They needed a striking plateform, not a battleship as Colonial fleet was supposed to be destroyed save for a few lucky units. And so it was.

It was, let's say, a bet of all or nothing : either the surprise attack+virus succeeds and you do not need a brawling ship, either it fails and you are in for a lost war.

I'd quote everyone else too, but this is a good discussion.

Everyone makes a pretty fair point in defense of the basestars which I can concede to as being really good points.

On that note though, I do wish they'd have some sense with missiles especially since the ships seem to clump up no matter how far apart you put them, leading to a lot of friendly fire. Like all they'ed have to do is jump once and surround the ships and that would be it.

But as you say, it is pretty close on lore. Just like the Pegasus jumping in during the battle of caprica making short work of a single base star with a few well placed torpedoes.

I'll mess around with my fleet combinations to see if I can't get a well balanced fight going on. It probably also has to do with my bias to use mostly carriers as micromanaging smaller support ships seems to be something I shy away from.

Anyways, good points all!

[Tsuichoi]

AI positioning is trash. I recently played a mirror matchup at 16000 fleet cap and easily maintained a line against their trickling in of ships in a haphazard formation that was dealt with in short order as they spread out.

[RaftermanNZ]

Originally posted by Tsuichoi:

AI positioning is trash. I recently played a mirror matchup at 16000 fleet cap and easily maintained a line against their trickling in of ships in a haphazard formation that was dealt with in short order as they spread out.

Yeah I wish they'd have strategic formations to come at you with, but oh well.

[RaftermanNZ]

Nonetheless, I was able to get a pretty decent battle vs my own fleet. Recorded the battle with a few angles + autocam and put it together. Only reason I love playing is to watch it afterwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vNbavZPkvE&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=RaftermanNZ

[Leyline]

Funny thing is: the modern basestar can devastate colonial formation.

Jump below the colonials. launcn 4 war drivers, start torpedoing.
Hack the navigation of ships, or in the case of jupiters, fire control.
You could use vespids too, launch, destroy one target, recall, jump out and regen.