Sin and Sacrifice campaign discussion

[Nosfer 😂👌🏻]

Well, that was frakking epic. DLC campaign was more grim and I liked it. Final mission reminds me a lot of last mission in Homeworld. So good.
To devs: don't ever leave BSG license. You know why we love show exactly. Make Season 2, sequel, whatever. If it's as good as this game with S1 DLCs I'll buy it.
My only problem with the ending that I killed every cylon ship and the ending was still the same. Note to devs: in last cutscene add new DRADIS contacts coming, it should be easy to do, to me it looked like Cain overdramatised everything, lol
Can't wait for Season 2! Good job
What do you guys think?

[Supreme Doge]

Spoilers ahead.

In my opinion, we needed to go out fighting with our ships instead of having the game end abruptly once everyone was evacuated. That way the ending would carry much more weight as you'd have your one last outing with your ships and crews. Huge missed opportunity. The ending cutscene would still make sense if either some of the ships jumped (artificial limiter to avoid the players cheesing it out) or if that line was cut and we got more and more enemies coming at us. I thought the setup for the final mission was great, and the battle portion was great. It just lacked the punch beyond characters. That issue aside, I found myself being much more interested in the story this time around. If previously in TBA the story was the contextual backdrop for toaster killing, then in this campaign the story takes more central role and does it well in synergy with missions.

I liked the final few missions as they threw me off completely. I was actually expecting the fleet to go on some raid or mission in which Lachesis would go down, but what we got was an interesting surprise as well. The only thing I'd have preferred would have been avoidance of multiple fleet plot hole as I, for example, still had 2 fleets left in Alpha. Would have worked by having those fleets just run into 12k FP forces or smth. Either way, props to devs for taking that risk.

From what I could make out in the plot threads, there are some stones left unturned.

• The other Agathon sister (Sam, I think) and Galactica are still out there. I'm expecting her to go on and become the next advisor to the commander. The next Season will possibly have us starting out with rescue or rediscovery of Galactica in some way, shape or form.
  
• Lachesis is still around, so we might potentially encounter him at some point. Wouldn't be surprised if he was the villain going forward.
  
• The third IL model is yet to be revealed. I'd wager on it being either some kind of a hybrid or an offshoot with unique characteristics. Who knows?
  
• Jubal Sarkis seems to have survived the evacuation from Daidalos and is the next in line to lead the colonial fleet. He'll replace Cain and act as the new guy in charge. OR the devs will throw a curveball and make Silas Nash or somebody else the head of Colonial Fleet. I'm expecting 2-3 more new central characters with next season. We will likely see the next president of 12 colonies, Wenutu returning (potentially doing more shady stuff) and possibly some kind of a renegade-style character in order to have a contrast to Sarkis' approach.
  
• The next season will probably contain some big counter attack by colonial fleet in order to retake Helios Alpha. This will likely occur at the beginning, with the campaign revolving around recapturing that system. Another way to go would be a hunt for Lachesis, though it has already been played out. Perhaps we will get some more colonial politics or SDF, who knows?
  
• We'll get a new mobile shipyard or base platform. Perhaps Daidalos 2? Or, we might be locked onto a certain planet as our base, where we will build ships instead.

[lytleclan]

I hope Doc Cottle will be back in season 2. He will probably be smoking again. Can't say I would blame him.

[Nosfer 😂👌🏻]

Originally posted by LV MattXzK:

That issue aside, I found myself being much more interested in the story this time around. If previously in TBA the story was the contextual backdrop for toaster killing, then in this campaign the story takes more central role and does it well in synergy with missions.

Exactly my thoughts. For the most part original was like 'Yeah, here's war, here're key battles, play'. I expected DLC be the same, with Lachesis raid or something like that, but it was nothing like it. That's why it felt more grim to me: the last third of the game is literally 'Objective: Survive'. The problem though is that I had 20k resources and could buy a very large fleet, and I had 5 battlestars fleets already. Played on medium difficulty.

Also at the end enemy destroyed my hangars on Daidalus and evacuation stopped. I completely missed it and thought that objective is really to survive. Killed every enemy and just flu around for 4 turns waiting for hangar repair. That killed immersion a little for me

I think Sam and Jubal will replace Helena and Cain, but I wonder, what's the 'new doctrine' Helena talked about in ending cutscene?

[2 Straight Homies Doing the Gay]

Originally posted by ☻ Nosfer ☻:

Originally posted by LV MattXzK:

That issue aside, I found myself being much more interested in the story this time around. If previously in TBA the story was the contextual backdrop for toaster killing, then in this campaign the story takes more central role and does it well in synergy with missions.

Exactly my thoughts. For the most part original was like 'Yeah, here's war, here're key battles, play'. I expected DLC be the same, with Lachesis raid or something like that, but it was nothing like it. That's why it felt more grim to me: the last third of the game is literally 'Objective: Survive'. The problem though is that I had 20k resources and could buy a very large fleet, and I had 5 battlestars fleets already. Played on medium difficulty.

Also at the end enemy destroyed my hangars on Daidalus and evacuation stopped. I completely missed it and thought that objective is really to survive. Killed every enemy and just flu around for 4 turns waiting for hangar repair. That killed immersion a little for me

I think Sam and Jubal will replace Helena and Cain, but I wonder, what's the 'new doctrine' Helena talked about in ending cutscene?

Lmao your hangers getting blown out is pretty funny. Hopefully that gets patched out for immersion

[Spartan Delta 27]

The DLC was pretty interesting and surprisingly I was able to complete the Campaign, despite not being very good at the game. Only my two Battlestars survived, the Jupiter "Columbia" and the Minerva "Spitfire".

The story was really interesting and had diverse objectives and approaches for its missions. The Heracles was an interesting addition, although some additional Colonial vessels would have helped to satisfy my obsession with the ships in universe. I suppose for every Colonial addition, there must be a balanced Cylon addition as well.

In any case, it was very challenging and interesting. A lost more than a few ships in my Daidalos Fleet throughout (Including two other versions of "Columbia"), but it helped to drive home the significance of the conflict to me. Probably not too much of a comfort to the thousands killed in action unfortunately.

The ending was somewhat fascinating however. It appears as though the Centurions sent in were not strictly on a search and destroy mission. It is possible that we have not seen the last of Helena Agathon, Cain or Clothos. That said, there is no guarantee that such imprisonment would come without heavy consequences... Possibly seeing our former allies turned against us. *Shrugs*

[Supreme Doge]

I just rewatched Spacedock's video on Daidalos and turns out that they have actually kind of retconned Daidalos with the ending. According to the lore in Spacedock's video, Daidalos was actually supposed to eventually go out of action, get stripped of FTL drives and other parts, and become the Ragnar anchorage. This means that S&S retconned the fate of Daidalos.

[Spartan Delta 27]

Originally posted by LV MattXzK:

I just rewatched Spacedock's video on Daidalos and turns out that they have actually kind of retconned Daidalos with the ending. According to the lore in Spacedock's video, Daidalos was actually supposed to eventually go out of action, get stripped of FTL drives and other parts, and become the Ragnar anchorage. This means that S&S retconned the fate of Daidalos.

I figured the same. Although it is very likely that the Colonial Fleet went back for Daidalos later on and refitted it to become an arms depot.

[Supreme Doge]

Originally posted by Spartan Delta 27:

Originally posted by LV MattXzK:

I just rewatched Spacedock's video on Daidalos and turns out that they have actually kind of retconned Daidalos with the ending. According to the lore in Spacedock's video, Daidalos was actually supposed to eventually go out of action, get stripped of FTL drives and other parts, and become the Ragnar anchorage. This means that S&S retconned the fate of Daidalos.

I figured the same. Although it is very likely that the Colonial Fleet went back for Daidalos later on and refitted it to become an arms depot.

I don't think the colonial fleet came back to it, because in the miniseries, the Ragnar anchorage seems to be somewhat functional and does not appear to have suffered severe damage from internal gunfights or space battles. It also had functional jump drive, so I'd wager that it was actually taken by the cylons to somewhere. Makes no sense for cylons not to take it as Ragnar is literally a spaceship factory. They'd not be smart if they allowed for Colonial fleet to recover it.

[Spartan Delta 27]

Originally posted by LV MattXzK:

I don't think the colonial fleet came back to it, because in the miniseries, the Ragnar anchorage seems to be somewhat functional and does not appear to have suffered severe damage from internal gunfights or space battles. It also had functional jump drive, so I'd wager that it was actually taken by the cylons to somewhere. Makes no sense for cylons not to take it as Ragnar is literally a spaceship factory. They'd not be smart if they allowed for Colonial fleet to recover it.

Logically speaking, it makes very little sense for the Cylons to have left it alone. I agree on that point. After the war, the Colonials were probably free to refit it however they wanted during the 40 year armistice.

[Shermos]

I enjoyed this campaign a lot more than the original (which was already good imo). I agree that we probably haven't seen the last of Cain, Helena, and maybe even Clothos. I guess Daidalos was captured and will be recaptured at some point eventually being refitted into Ragnar.

I had quite a few fleets left by the end of the game. Felt a little bit immersion breaking for them not to join up at Ragnar, but whatever. I'll head-canon that the battle was actually a lot larger.

Looking forward to season 2.

[princedetenebres]

I'm just finishing the campaign now, and while I'm enjoying it immensely and don't regret purchasing it (and would recommend others do so), it still feels very off, it doesn't usually bother me too much that I'm limited to 7 ships, but the story dialogue just seems so inappropriate for the map situation. We seem to be on the run, but from the strategic map, that really just doesn't make any sense. I count 11 Jupiters, 6 Minervas and 29 Artemis all ready for action, the vast majority of which are just sitting around idling waiting for Cylon fleets or secondary objective missions to pop up. I feel like the Cylons have been better at actually causing some attrition and taking out a ship or two in some engagements, but I've always had ample ships to replace them, and it just feels off when Clothos warns of the unstoppable force that is Lachesis -- I feel like my response would be Brannigan-esque "He's coming? With lots of ships? Good. Let's show them what a bloated, run-away military budget can do"

I guess I just built too many ships, or didn't lose many from the prior campaign, so 8k fleets with decisive leaders lead by elite units, well, I'm itching for a fight, and there's an incongruity between the 'oh gods, let's all run away!' and the number of idle battle-ready ships at my disposal. And Agathon talking about Galactica being 'the toughest battlestar' didn't resonate either, given the half-dozen other elite battlestars (Galactica not among them) that have a far longer battle history and kill list. Perhaps its heretical to say, but I'm often annoyed when I found a mission that required I bring it along, since it meant a reduction in my fleet's effectiveness rather than a boon to it.

Having said that, I was thrilled to see I could export my prior save and carry on with the officers and ships I'd painstakingly trained up throughout the prior campaign, I guess that's just the price you pay. I wasn't sure what S&S would hold, so I made sure I finished the base + BA campaigns with a mighty fleet, raring to take on whatever toasters were stupid enough to venture into the system -- "oh good, a <8k fleet, which officer should we dispatch to crush them to gain some more experience and a possible promotion?"


Also, next season someone needs to tell the senior officers that in the middle of an active firefight is really not the appropriate time for a pissing contest or to have some petty argument, I'm always irked and want someone in CIC to remind them that maybe these discussions could be settled at a time when we're *not* being fired at, hmm? :)

[Menace]

Originally posted by princedetenebres:

Also, next season someone needs to tell the senior officers that in the middle of an active firefight is really not the appropriate time for a pissing contest or to have some petty argument, I'm always irked and want someone in CIC to remind them that maybe these discussions could be settled at a time when we're *not* being fired at, hmm? :)

Ha! I know it! But, it does remind me of the tv show, sometimes they had conversations during a time that a normal person would be like.. "Really? You're talking about this right now?!"

[princedetenebres]

Originally posted by Menace:

Ha! I know it! But, it does remind me of the tv show, sometimes they had conversations during a time that a normal person would be like.. "Really? You're talking about this right now?!"

That's a good point, they did do that a lot

Ok, I wrote that as I was finishing the last mission, but I'm genuinely annoyed now. The arbitrary 7 ship limit I understood to be for engine reasons, which, fine, ok - technical limitation, whatever -- but then don't let the AI continuously reinforce and give me some nonsense about how we're just too weak to engage them when I'm restricted to bringing 3 out of 46 of my big capital ships and the AI is allowed to keep replacing their losses mid-battle, it's just jarring and frustrating, especially since even still this is a winnable battle even with the artificial cap that only applies to the player.

[Gorok Delvedeep]

i REALLY REALLY want these devs to make BSG campaigns for the OG bsg.

[Spartan Delta 27]

Originally posted by princedetenebres:

I'm just finishing the campaign now, and while I'm enjoying it immensely and don't regret purchasing it (and would recommend others do so), it still feels very off, it doesn't usually bother me too much that I'm limited to 7 ships, but the story dialogue just seems so inappropriate for the map situation. We seem to be on the run, but from the strategic map, that really just doesn't make any sense. I count 11 Jupiters, 6 Minervas and 29 Artemis all ready for action, the vast majority of which are just sitting around idling waiting for Cylon fleets or secondary objective missions to pop up. I feel like the Cylons have been better at actually causing some attrition and taking out a ship or two in some engagements, but I've always had ample ships to replace them, and it just feels off when Clothos warns of the unstoppable force that is Lachesis -- I feel like my response would be Brannigan-esque "He's coming? With lots of ships? Good. Let's show them what a bloated, run-away military budget can do"

I guess I just built too many ships, or didn't lose many from the prior campaign, so 8k fleets with decisive leaders lead by elite units, well, I'm itching for a fight, and there's an incongruity between the 'oh gods, let's all run away!' and the number of idle battle-ready ships at my disposal. And Agathon talking about Galactica being 'the toughest battlestar' didn't resonate either, given the half-dozen other elite battlestars (Galactica not among them) that have a far longer battle history and kill list. Perhaps its heretical to say, but I'm often annoyed when I found a mission that required I bring it along, since it meant a reduction in my fleet's effectiveness rather than a boon to it.

Having said that, I was thrilled to see I could export my prior save and carry on with the officers and ships I'd painstakingly trained up throughout the prior campaign, I guess that's just the price you pay. I wasn't sure what S&S would hold, so I made sure I finished the base + BA campaigns with a mighty fleet, raring to take on whatever toasters were stupid enough to venture into the system -- "oh good, a <8k fleet, which officer should we dispatch to crush them to gain some more experience and a possible promotion?"


Also, next season someone needs to tell the senior officers that in the middle of an active firefight is really not the appropriate time for a pissing contest or to have some petty argument, I'm always irked and want someone in CIC to remind them that maybe these discussions could be settled at a time when we're *not* being fired at, hmm? :)

I believe the reason why Lachesis' showing up is feared, is because Lachesis is a more aggressive commander with the full force of the Cylon Fleet behind them. The Cylons keep throwing fleets at you every few turns, when logically they could just send a few fleets all to the same system and wipe out your entire force.

While I definitely do not want to defend the inconsistencies of the Campaign's narrative or mechanics, I will say that what one works with in the Campaign is very insignificant when one realizes there are hundreds of Cylon ships just waiting to Zerg Rush the Twelve Colonies.

In any case, you do make valid points.