Why build carriers?

[Gargantua]

Carriers seem like a waste of a unit. Slow, not great firepower, and only 2 viper squadrons??

The artemis vastly outclasses the carrier, and quite frankly even adamants with 1 fighter and 1 missle slot is probably a better choice pound for pound.

I firmly believe carriers should have 3 fighter squadrons to compete. Comments anyone? am I missing something here? or am I right on?

[Dread Pirate]

+1 for a third squadron slot dedicated to raptors. I'd even go for a 4th slot dedicated to sweepers.

[windfinder21]

I Have one carrier that I built, this was pre viper nerf.

I never got what these people saying how the vipers could wipe a fleet out and you just sat back and watched. My ships always where engaging with guns prior to even one ship being taken out with vipers even then (after the enemy fighters where delt with of course).

My opion is that the Carrier is under armed. And if you look at it compaired to the battlestars you have to wonder ..... what are they doing with all that SPACE in that giant whale of a ship that larger then the battlestars themselfs.

Now it packs a lot of armor and structure (hull points), BUT lets compair it to the battlestars:

for armor and hull, it falls between the Artimes and the Jupitur.

number of guns:

Carrier
2 heavy guns
6 Mediem guns

Battlestar (artims/jupitur)

4/0 Heavy guns
8/14 Battlestar Artiliary
16/16 Light Rapid fire guns

Other Arms:

Carrier

0 Munitions
2 squadrens

Battlestars

1 munitions
2 squadrens

All of that is if you never have built a carrier. other stuff that would need to fit in each ship:

Fuel stores for the ship (same on both)
Munition Lunchers and amuniton lockers for them (carrier has none, Battlestar has for one)
squadrens support (fuel, spares, ammo, hanger space) Same for both.
FTL (same)
Life supprt (same)
crew (the same numbers of crew needed for the fighters, but Battlestars need WAY more gun crews)
Gun Ammunition lockers (the number of guns and heavier caliaber of them on the Battlestars would mean they would need MANY MORE shell ammo magazines).
Viper Launch tubes (battlestars have 2 banks of them, the Carriers do not)
Flight Decks (Battlestars have 2, the carrier just has one larger one)
Engines (the battlestars have more and larger engines, so the carriers would take up less room)

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So in the carrier you get a ship (compaired to a artimes battlestar) with:

More armor and Hull
Bigger spaceframe/more internal space
Less stuff taking up room inside that spaceframe
Same Viper count
Much less guns
same strenght of Hanger subsystem.

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Here is what I prepose as a way to give the Carrier a reason to find some use so that it truly fills a nitch:

1) Incress the Hanger Subsystem strength of the carrier by 20-30% maybe more.
It specializes in the use of fighters, let its equipment reflect that

2) When Viper MkII is unlocked, the Carrier gains the use of a permanent rapter Squadren.
Squadren is a loose turm here as its only 2 birds but still. this Squadren could not be changed to a viper and you would always have it.

3) When a Sweeper is Unlocked, the Carrier gains the use of a permanent Sweeper Squadren.
This Squadren could not be changed to a Viper or a Rapter.

In the end the Atlas Carrier would end up with 2+2 Squadrens and due to having a higher Hanger subsystem Would be Ideal for repairing/rearming the Squadrens it was employing, and its fighters woudl be better cordinated then a base Battlestar (higher evasion).

[Gargantua]

Great post Windfinder! I like your solutions;

Worth noting too... the carrier being larger, is basically a bigger target and more likely to be hit.

[Vodo]

I like the permanent raptor/sweeper idea.

ps: in your comparison, you forgot Flak and movement.

[Gargantua]

Carriers also take longer to build 5 turns! That's outrageous, as the Daedelus can only make progress on 3 ships at a time.

[TemplarGFX]

Does anyone know if the carrier has a faster repair/rearm rate for its craft than other ships? If it repairs like the missile boat shoots it could be useful for attack runs early and late game

[Jamian_Zephyr]

Another thing: The Cylons carrier, the Cerberus, has 3 spaces for squadrons. While the Atlas only has 2?

[dexion1619]

Originally posted by TemplarGFX:

Does anyone know if the carrier has a faster repair/rearm rate for its craft than other ships? If it repairs like the missile boat shoots it could be useful for attack runs early and late game

Except, it's not available until like mission 9, requires 5 turns too build, and takes up a huge number of fleet points for what it provides. I'm in agreement that it needs, at minimum, 3 fighter slots. I'd love too see the above mentioned 2+2 arraignment of 2 Vipers, 2 support ships (raptors or sweepers).

[Starwarsgeek28]

Originally posted by Shards:

I feel sorry for the Atlas', I really like them! They're much cheaper than a Battlestar, have a ton of survivability and their heavy guns add some really valuable fire support IMHO.

I wouldn't take a full wing of them, but one of them supporting a mixed fleet with other ships works well for me..

I actually agree that the atlas is a badass ship with heavy armor and good weapons. What I think brings it down is the fact that you can unlock the artemis class battlestar before the atlas carrier. In the lore the atlas in an old ship design from past wars. It would make more sense if the carrier was unlocable first as a sort of "proto battlestar" a heavy ship like that would be useful early on.

Anyways thats what I think.
I honestly belive making the atlas carrier an earlier unlock would instantly make it more useful

Its either that or give it more fighter slots 3 to 4 would be ideal.

[Palpat]

Originally posted by Starwarsgeek28:

I actually agree that the atlas is a badass ship with heavy armor and good weapons. What I think brings it down is the fact that you can unlock the artemis class battlestar before the atlas carrier. In the lore the atlas in an old ship design from past wars. It would make more sense if the carrier was unlocable first as a sort of "proto battlestar" a heavy ship like that would be useful early on.

Anyways thats what I think.
I honestly belive making the atlas carrier an earlier unlock would instantly make it more useful

Its either that or give it more fighter slots 3 to 4 would be ideal.

This.
And 4 slots. It's an immense carrier after all!

The other problem is raiders aren't a threat. At all. Why invest in more fighters if you don't really need them? Cylons must receive a boost in numbers (yes, numbers) of raiders. And also in AI, that's another thing.
In both old and new series, also in the Razor glimpses of the 1st war, they use swarm tactics and seems to outnumber the Colonials even if Vipers are better. IMHO, Basestars and Ceberus should have 1 to 2 more slots. Or perhaps even Talons if Atlas was to be pushed earlier in the game, in order to make the ship more interesting to build.

Another way to make them interesting could be free raptors or sweepers, or having a real bomber unit (because let's face it, Raptors rockets are ridiculous).

[Nuee]

Originally posted by Jamian_Zephyr:

Another thing: The Cylons carrier, the Cerberus, has 3 spaces for squadrons. While the Atlas only has 2?

From a logical stand point, ythey would not need room for food and water, oxygen/atmospheric processers, bathroom facilities and processing, sleeping quarters, cooking area's, med bays. Though you would need a repair bay that would be the equivlent of the med bay but for cylons. Not that that is an argument in favor of game inbalance or anything, but the machines would need less infrastructure.

Palpat, intersting thought a bomber with two slots of two salvos might be good... would have to be resupplyed often, or even more salvos but with powerful short range munitions so it has to get in range of the target and survive. Maybe even within flack range making using it a bit more challenging.

[Afanickton]

I have an atlas carrier fleet floating around Helios Alpha to hunt some toasters and I love it.

[Tiggy]

Originally posted by Gargantua:

Resupply viper wings? what? That's a thing? Like they get damaged - you re-land them? and then redeploy them?

That wasn't in the manual!

All the same - even if this is a thing, this can still be accomplished on any of the other ships with hangars?

Still think the carriers should come with 3 squadrons, you want fighter swarm - make it a real thing.

i found the manual lacking in some rather important and usefull information in alot of places.

[Shards]

Just checked the manual, recall and repair is on page 30?

[Gargantua]

So to sum up our discussion - the initial assertion was correct.

Carriers are a terrible build and fleet choice - don't buid them.