Atremis class: Complete waste of Tylium?

[bunny32794]

While I've only unlocked the Manticore and Adamant in the campaign, I've been using skirmish mode to plan fleet composition ahead of time and see if I'll get my money's worth.

The results are...disappointing. As a missile platform and fighter carrier it's not as good pound-for-pound as the Adamant. A single Atremis for 1,550 is not as good as 2 Adamants which only cost 1,500 and give you the same number of fighters for another missile slot. The Flak ability is a bit of a tough sell; while giving you more or less complete immunity to fighters and munitions, it can only be used on one side at a time (even though there are point-defense guns on both sides of the ship) and precludes using other guns to fire on the enemy. They are also massive hacking magnets and in the test skirmish (2 Atremis vs. the Nemesis 2 fleet) one of them was completely disabled while dealing little damage to it's far inferior enemy ships.

The core problem, it seems, is the inaccuracy of the ship's heavy batteries. Granted, looking at the firing ranges for the ship seems to indicate that the Atremis is supposed to be brawling up close and not skirmishing at long range (the red ring is very small) and the game specifically marks the batteries as having "very low" accuracy* (please have a more helpful indicator than this, like the real life CEP or having a "cone" that shows where possible shots could go). However, the heavy batteries seem to miss even at very short ranges. We are talking about dozens of shots fireed without a single hit.

I think this comes from two things; firstly, the game doesn't seem to lead its targets. Looking at battle replays in slow-motion seems to indicate that the game tagets where a ship was rather than where it will be when the shot actually reaches it. This is normally not a problem considering the shots go very fast, but the heavy battery shots seem to move at such a slow speed (you can track them with the naked eye on regular speed as opposed to light shots which are just a blur) that the enemy ship will always have moved out of the way. Secondly, I suspect there may be a targeting glitch of some kind. The heavy batteries always seemed to miss slightly above and to the left of the target. This pattern is pretty consistent regardless of target heading (i.e. it misses the same way if a ship is moving left or right relative to the guns).

That being said, however, perhaps battlestars are strictly meant to engage heavier Cylon ships. It doesn't seem that obliterating a single corvette every turn is really the intended effect.


PS. What do the white hash-marks in the targeting ranges mean? At first I thought they just marked the edges of the colored irises, but on some ships the marks are in the irises. It's really confusing and the guide offers no help for what they mean.

Also, in my experience I've found the Adamant to be the best. A squdron slot, a munitions slot, a good number of fast-firing, highly accurate guns with better armor and firing arcs than the Manticore at only 20% higher cost (180 to 150) and 50% more fleet points (750 to 500). Really, on top of being all-round awesome I'd almost argue it to be the most fleet-point and Tylium-effective ship in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually a good idea to just keep this until the end of the game.

[PhantomVector]

I use em as tanks for my fleet, but I've not gotten so far into it as you. My current battlegroup is two artemis battlestars, and four adamant light carriers. I go old school, and work two lines of broadsides, with two artemis battlestars as the first rates on the frontline, and Adamants in the second. Typically the AI will focus on the Artemis ships first with missiles, and the flak means they waste all of that potential DPS. Doubt it'll work against a human player, but for PvE its served me well so far.

I'm debating switching out the adamants for minotaur cruisers, but I need to see how effective they are in skirmish compared to adamants since they've got heavy batteries as well.

[ramjbjb]

https://youtu.be/zkILcqUL1NA?t=248

Skip to minute 4:00 for the commented replay.

I'd daresay that Artemis did it's job. So has done so every one I ever used either in MP or Campaign.

Those things aren't primary damage dealers (even while they do pack a punch, you don't purchase a battlestar because it hits hard, but because it's an excellent tank) - they're defensive assets resilient to fire with a good punch. Their flak is priceless, so are their two squadrons, that if you have a brain, will use for something more than just Vipers if you are using adamants too.

[Team Triss]

I am a little disappointed with how quickly the armor melts, but thus far I've no regrets about making the Artemis a staple of my carrier fleets. It is still beefier than an Adamant and will suck in the fire that would otherwise plow through the lighter frigates.

Never underestimate the usefulness of knowing exactly what the enemy is going to focus on.

And don't forget that the Artemis gets a one round reduction in reload time for munitions.

But I suspect that the Artemis will probably shine later in the game when you're going up against bigger and badder fleets; the Adamant may no longer be a staple when you've got fleet points to burn and the enemy fleets are entirely Basestars (those things have 200HP).

[ramjbjb]

Adamant-only fleets are literally food for basestars and Arachnes. Unless you're EXTREMELY careful and use sweepers' chaffs with perfect timing. And even then it's a matter of angles, as a sweeper has only 10 chaff cannisters and you might end up with uncovered areas missiles can go through. not to mention, chaff doesn't last forever.

An arachne volley is enough to put an Adamant on fleeing footing in one single stroke, and a basestar full volley will put it into red hull status. An Artemis is a must have to keep those missiles at bay through it's awesome flak. Unless you have a Jupiter, ofc.

Yes, the Adamant is VERY good. Just not in the same way the Artemis is. So nope, that doesn't mean other ships don't have their uses, or that they're "useless" because of it.

[Bunks]

2 squadrons of vipers plus flak cover for basesstar volleys...waste of time my a55

[SeeSalt]

adamants....just stick to 6 adamants ... make a wall and take them 1 by 1... vipers cN take om another ship by themselves

[Cybermortis]

The issue with people having trouble with Battlestars is how they are using them. The tendency is to have them close with the enemy as quickly as possible head on, which misses the fact that nine times out of ten Cylons will pick Battlestars as their primary target.

The trick to using them is to keep them outside gun range and broadside on with flak active for as long as possible. Turn one launch all Vipers. Turn two angle slightly away while sending your vipers into battle. Turn three (once your Vipers are out of the immediate area) activate Flak.
Keep angling your Battlestar to keep the missile boats firing into your flak screen while a line of Adamant's closer to the action flies up and down firing on everything heading for the Battlestar and your fighters chew through the Cylon ships.
Once all the missile boats are gone switch to full offence, turn off the flak and target fire the most dangerous ship in range.

It is worth remembering that regardless of points value fleets are still limited to 7 ships. So two Battlestars are worth four Adamant's in terms of fighters, and fighters are ultimately worth far more than big guns.

I like to go with two Battlestars and four Adamant's for eight squadrons worth of fighters. This then leaves me with one extra ship slot for something else.

[windfinder21]

You are mistacken on one fact:

Having Flak on does not preclude them from firing on enemy ships. It just uses the Side Point defence guns to put up the flak, so the Heavy guns on the Artemis are free to fire.

If you have your Battlestars so that the enemy are all on one side of it (so the enemy is coming to you) you can set ALL your other ships on the otherside so that IF the enemy fires at anything other then the Battlestar, the Battlestar can raise up with flak and that ship can sink down, so that the flack feild will still eat the munitions.

Another Item that you may not know:

You can fire your guns upon a target before it is Identified and still just a red marker.

Also

Use the focus fire command, every turn. it gives your guns a range and accurisy buff.

Only run the Flak when you NEED to run the flak. thoughs guns used for putting up they feild are not firing at ships that turn.

In a pure gun standpoint, the Adamants have 4 guns a side doing 0.5 damage a shot with a High rate of fire and a Medium Accuarsy. Both Battlestars have 8 side pod guns a side doing 0.2 damage a shot with a High rate of fire and a HIGH accuarsy. Since we have no numbers, Assuming the fire rates are the same (I would say the Battlestar guns fire faster) 2 Adamants would put out the same volume of shells, at 0.3 damage more a shot and a less likely to hit. That is not even including the Heavy guns on the Battlestar that one shell hit by a big tosided gun is 4 damage (or equal to 8 shells landed, 2 full broadsides, by the Adamants). The trick to battlestars is getting the top guns fireing and hitting.

to have that happen, have your ships at a lower level then your enemy and set your posture slider to full attack as the incresses range and accurasy of your guns.

You can vaparize the enemy before they even get Identifed and are still just red markers.

[Bunks]

this whole argument about arts bein a waste is nuts. My arts have the same hit rates and do almost double the damage on average that my Adams do, not to mention the Vipers dps too. If you are fighting a lot of small ships then maybe you will notice a drop but when fighting large vessels and missles flying all around, Arts are a must have.

If you feel they are a waste, you are using them wrong.

[Larkis]

What you seems to forget is that you only can have 7 ships in a fleet.

So the artemis give you the power of 2 Adamands but only need 1 ship slot.

[Telerion]

Originally posted by Bunks:

If you feel they are a waste, you are using them wrong.

This is most likely the case for everybody who say they are crap. Well and because some random youtube idiot say so because he rush head first into battle with them and wonder why they got insta killed by all enemys.



Something most ppl dont take into account with the guns is that they are projectile weapons. They have a travel time and the main cannons have a pretty slow one. Hiting a fast and agile enemy with a slow traveling projectile is very unlikely, shot them at bigger slower ships and they have a pretty good hit rate. Try hitting a racecar at full speed with a slingshot is nearly impossible, shot that slingshot at a snail and the snail is dead...........this is a metaphor, dont shot snails they are lovely creatures...........shot your little brothers instead :P

I said it in another post, Battlestars dmg didnt come from there guns, but there Vipers.