That Final Boss...

[EdgarAllenSwole]

- Depends heavily on luck
- Makes no sense story-wise
- Introduces extremely awkward mechanics at the last minute
- Forces you to replay multiple fights if you reload to grind
- Invalidates all the strategies you've developed throughout the game

I'm speechless. Can someone take a shot at explaining why this isn't horrific game design?

[Oguzhan]

The mech fight?

It was a fun and easy fight dude. You are technicaly doing what you have been doing for the game too. Find the weakness and beat him.......

[EdgarAllenSwole]

It's a stretch to claim you're doing the "same thing as before" when the combat system is entirely different. His weaknesses aren't hard to find, but exploiting them is completely chance-based if you use the counter stance for assists. Just annoying all-around.

[Oguzhan]

Originally posted by EdgarAllenSwole:

It's a stretch to claim you're doing the "same thing as before" when the combat system is entirely different. His weaknesses aren't hard to find, but exploiting them is completely chance-based if you use the counter stance for assists. Just annoying all-around.

Well to each his own.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I enjoyed the true final boss fight. In my opinion, it is the most emotionally driven and fulfilling final fight in the series I've played so far (FC, SC, 3rd, Zero, Ao, CS1, CS2). The new battle system hammered home the fantastic DK reveal. The only problem is that at this point, the DK battle system wasn't as refined and was too dependent on RNG. You could do everything right and still lose the battle simply because he happens to get enough link/follow up attacks to kill your before you kill him.

[Histidine]

Yeah, the gameplay of the Divine Knight battles is... not the best, I think. I still like them because they have cool aesthetics and it's a change of pace from regular bosses, but it feels like some obvious improvements that could be made.

Originally posted by EdgarAllenSwole:

- Depends heavily on luck

I wouldn't mind the system so much if you could actually make an educated guess on which target part is vulnerable based on the enemy's pose. I could do this to an extent with Scarlet Spiegel and the first mech boss of CS2 (hit the part that looks the most exposed), but for every other mech battle I've encountered so far it feels like I may as well have rolled some dice.

(also Ordine having two identical-looking poses with different vulnerabilities is one of those things that come across as a deliberate "♥♥♥♥ you" from the dev to the player)

- Makes no sense story-wise

Depends? CS2 does seem to be moving towards an explanation from what I've played of it so far (because CS1 is a 100 hour prologue for CS2, aaaaarrrgh)

- Introduces extremely awkward mechanics at the last minute
- Invalidates all the strategies you've developed throughout the game

Could be worse, they could have gone and made the boss a quicktime event

I don't find the sudden surprise mechanics change objectionable in this particular case, but if they're going to suddenly give the player a minigame entirely different from what the player has encountered before, they should have provided a continue-on-fail option. You're not required to win the fishing or swimming minigames to see the game's ending, after all.

Forces you to replay multiple fights if you reload to grind

Could've been easily fixed by aforementioned continue option, and/or just giving Valimar a fixed level for the battle so at least no re-grinding is involved.

[Stabbey]

Originally posted by EdgarAllenSwole:

- Depends heavily on luck
- Makes no sense story-wise
- Introduces extremely awkward mechanics at the last minute
- Forces you to replay multiple fights if you reload to grind
- Invalidates all the strategies you've developed throughout the game

I'm speechless. Can someone take a shot at explaining why this isn't horrific game design?

This took me a frustratingly long amount of tries as well. I was playing on Hard my first time.

The final boss is not based on luck, but it's still really obnoxious. The catch is that in both halves of the fight, the boss has identical stances for two different weak points, and you need to rely on the sound cue to know which is which. I had to write these down and consult them during the fight.

First half:
"Haaaaaaaaaa" - Target the Body.
"Think you can handle this?" - Target the head.

Second Half:
"Hope you're ready" - Target the Body.
"So what are you gonna do?" - Target the head.

Even with that, though, that still might not be enough. Try and have Rean be level 70. You can still go back to the Old Schoolhouse from just before leaving hte academy if needed.

I relied on getting enough CP for Morning Moon (the 100% dodge craft), but others instead recommend spending your CP on the one which buffs your Strength, getting that up to 50% and never letting it run out. Either way, probably avoid the crafts which only deal damage, you need the extra bonus from hitting weak points more.

[Shunsatsu]

What I did:
Use the buff to get to 50% STR and don't let it run out. Use Morning Moon, cuz counters give you free hits with your STR buff since buff turns drop only on your turn.

So if he hits you twice during Morning Moon, that's two free hits for you with your STR buff.

Might be quite RNG as well, but I beat him first try on hard if that counts by sticking to this strategy

[Mr.Mostache]

The OP does make some good points. If Ordine gets couple of follow up attacks, you can be in a pickle.

[EdgarAllenSwole]

Thanks for the feedback. I went in at Lvl. 65 on Nightmare, so maybe my frustration stems from lacking enough strength and health to win the DPS race.

Originally posted by Stabbey:

The final boss is not based on luck, but it's still really obnoxious. The catch is that in both halves of the fight, the boss has identical stances for two different weak points, and you need to rely on the sound cue to know which is which. I had to write these down and consult them during the fight.

Unfortunately it has RNG elements even if you figure out the stance weaknesses through trial-and-error. The counter, for instance, only has a 50% chance of dodging an attack and giving you an assist point. The boss can also use follow-ups that double his damage output. As for his special move, I'm not sure whether it comes out by chance or if it's hard-coded into the fight.

I'll keep trying in any case. Doesn't make sense to let this derail a 150-hour playthrough.

[Stabbey]

Originally posted by EdgarAllenSwole:

Thanks for the feedback. I went in at Lvl. 65 on Nightmare, so maybe my frustration stems from lacking enough strength and health to win the DPS race.

Under your Item's pages "DLC" tab, do you have any Shining Pom bait? If so, return to the old schoolhouse and use it all there. I had 5 of them free, but I bought this game early and don't know if they still give away some free. That's how I got from level 65 at the end of the last dungeon to level 70.

Unfortunately it has RNG elements even if you figure out the stance weaknesses through trial-and-error. The counter, for instance, only has a 50% chance of dodging an attack and giving you an assist point. The boss can also use follow-ups that double his damage output. As for his special move, I'm not sure whether it comes out by chance or if it's hard-coded into the fight.

I'll keep trying in any case. Doesn't make sense to let this derail a 150-hour playthrough.

Yeah, all you can do is make sure you're always hitting a weak point. It's annoying because there is practically NO margin for error in the fight.

[EdgarAllenSwole]

Cleared it after tacking on a few extra levels. The double-buff strategy works, though only if you have enough HP to tank hit after unavoidable hit. Still not a fan of this fight but at least it's over.

On that note, can anyone confirm whether mech fights follow the same formula in CS2? I'm iffy on continuing the series if it's heavy on this sort of combat.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Originally posted by EdgarAllenSwole:

Cleared it after tacking on a few extra levels. The double-buff strategy works, though only if you have enough HP to tank hit after unavoidable hit. Still not a fan of this fight but at least it's over.

On that note, can anyone confirm whether mech fights follow the same formula in CS2? I'm iffy on continuing the series if it's heavy on this sort of combat.

As said before, this incarnation of the system was very much an early version. CS2 is refined and cuts out the chance to hit (you will ALWAYS land a followup attack if you hit the right part, which is now recorded so you don't have to remember once you find it) and bosses have clear tells as to when they are going to use a special attack so you can react accordingly. You also can cast arts in battle as well. CS3+4 expands on the system even more.

[EdgarAllenSwole]

That's reassuring. I can see these fights being interesting if done properly.

[Stabbey]

Originally posted by EdgarAllenSwole:

Cleared it after tacking on a few extra levels. The double-buff strategy works, though only if you have enough HP to tank hit after unavoidable hit. Still not a fan of this fight but at least it's over.

On that note, can anyone confirm whether mech fights follow the same formula in CS2? I'm iffy on continuing the series if it's heavy on this sort of combat.

They don't. In fact, due to a new mechanic, the majority of the mech fights in CS2 have the opposite problem - they're almost impossible to lose if you're paying attention, which can make them feel a little boring.

[Oguzhan]

Originally posted by Stabbey:

Originally posted by EdgarAllenSwole:

Cleared it after tacking on a few extra levels. The double-buff strategy works, though only if you have enough HP to tank hit after unavoidable hit. Still not a fan of this fight but at least it's over.

On that note, can anyone confirm whether mech fights follow the same formula in CS2? I'm iffy on continuing the series if it's heavy on this sort of combat.

They don't. In fact, due to a new mechanic, the majority of the mech fights in CS2 have the opposite problem - they're almost impossible to lose if you're paying attention, which can make them feel a little boring.

With the exception of the optional to win one and the final one, pretty much all of them guranteed victory.