Valimar and celine *spoiler ending*

[justbystander]

Valimar say rean is the awakener, and why celine can go order valimar to retreat in the final? And why valimar just go with it? Celine is emma's familiar not rean.

[Stabbey]

It's probably because a Divine Knight has a duty to protect their Awakener from self-destructive courses of action.

[Citronvand]

Divine Knights do have some autonomy, very mild spoilers for CS3: Valimar admits he almost sortied on his own during an attack to defend Rean & co.. So I think it was more Valimar's desire to protect himself and his awakener rather than it was an order from Celine.

[Kurosu]

Like other's mentioned , he knew that retreating was the best course of action to protect his Awakener.

[Dragon]

I am not buying the answers given in this thread even if that is the 'official story' that the game says is so.

Because 'the official' story is contradicted in CS 2, like for example, why doesn't Valimar evacuate with Rean in the same way as he did at the end of CS 1 when he (Valimar) knows that Rean is about to put both of their lives in extremely great danger in order to save Scarlet from blowing herself up.

That makes no sense whatsoever if Valimar is programmed to protect his Awakener's life at all costs.

So the only logical conclusion for the incident described in the OP is:

a) Celine manipulated Valimar to do what she wanted which was made possible because
b) Valimar isn't very smart.

[justbystander]

Yeah no matter how you slice it, rean is the one who made contract with valimar. Not celine. Celine is emma's familiar not rean's. And celine not secondary contractor either.
Maybe its just bad writing. If valimar decide on its own to take rean away its more logical than celine order valimar

[Dragon]

Originally posted by justbystander:

If valimar decide on its own to take rean away its more logical than celine order valimar

...except that still wouldn't be logical either, because in that case, meaning if Valimar himself decided to take Rean away, then in order for Valimar to be consistent with his (Valimar's) own traits, then he'd also have to make that same decision to take Rean away in CS 2...yet he doesn't.

[justbystander]

Originally posted by Dragon:

Originally posted by justbystander:

If valimar decide on its own to take rean away its more logical than celine order valimar

...except that still wouldn't be logical either, because in that case, meaning if Valimar himself decided to take Rean away, then in order for Valimar to be consistent with his (Valimar's) own traits, then he'd also have to make that same decision to take Rean away in CS 2...yet he doesn't.

If i remember correctly rean himself decide to save scarlet and valimar go with it because he is the awakener and contractor. Rean speak like 'lets go valimar!" And valimar do what he told. Its more logical if reans order valimar

[Dragon]

Originally posted by justbystander:

If i remember correctly rean himself decide to save scarlet and valimar go with it because he is the awakener and contractor. Rean speak like 'lets go valimar!" And valimar do what he told. Its more logical if reans order valimar

Sure, but then there is this problem:

So why didn't Valimar listen to Rean at the end of CS 1, when Rean told Valimar to stay put and not to take him away? Valimar willingly disobeyed Rean's order there.

So then, why didn't Valimar also willingly disobey Rean's reckless order in regards to Scarlet in CS 2?

The fact that he didn't bespeaks very incongruent - a.k.a. bad - writing/characterization.

If the writing in regards to this point were actually good, then either Valimar should have obeyed Rean both times, or Valimar should have disobeyed Rean both times.

[Koby]

lol Dragon being Dragon I see.

Valimar does what he wants. The situation with Scarlet was not a dire situation.... and everyone knew going into it that the plan was to ensure S didn't meet the same fate as V.

At the end of CS1 Valimar disregarded a terrible order by Rean who let his emotions cloud his judgement. Everyone agreed with Valimar's choice except for Rean at the time.

The point with Scarlet, everyone agreed with Rean and there was zero reason for Valimar to go against it.

It's not even close to the same situation.

[Rajangs Left Big Toe]

Two things here. A Divine Knight first and foremost operates at the command of its Awakener and they are somewhat sentient. When Rean/Valimar was disabled on the ground before Crow was about to strike the final blow Rean's decision to stay wasn't rational and would result in his death. Valimar's objective is to protect his awakener, and by extension himself, and allowing Rean to make such a reckless decision goes against his design. All of Class 7 was also in agreement with fleeing which is why Valimar took Celine's order.

Celine is also a secondary contractor along with all of Class 7 since they were all present at the time Valimar was awakened. While an awakener is who the knight listens to first, they will evaluate input from any other secondary contractors as well.

Since the issue with S in CS2 is brought up Valimar didn't try to flee because Rean was acting with conviction and his decision to do what he did was a carefully thought out decision that the secondary contractors were all in agreement with. It also aligned with Rean's personality since Rean wants to do things in a way that severely cuts down on the amount of deaths especially after what happened to V.

[Dragon]

Originally posted by Koby:

The situation with Scarlet was not a dire situation....

Yes it was, the game makes quite clear that it was indeed a dire situation, and that Rean was putting his life at great risk by doing that. In fact, he was putting his life at far more risk than he would have been by staying to fight at the end of CS 1, wherein he had several very strong allies to help him stay safe (yet had no one to help him stay safe with the unnecessary risk he took with Scarlet).

There is no rational way to explain the inconsistency which I've described, and that is because it's just really bad writing, period.

Originally posted by Rajang's Left Big Toe:

Rean was acting with conviction and his decision to do what he did was a carefully thought out decision that the secondary contractors were all in agreement with. It also aligned with Rean's personality since Rean wants to do things in a way that severely cuts down on the amount of deaths especially after what happened to V.

Rean was also "acting out of conviction" at the end of CS 1, yet Valimar completely disregarded his orders anyway, so that's not a valid argument.

I'm pretty sure none of the secondary contractors agreed with Rean's decision to risk his life for Scarlet.

And Rean's decision to stay put at the end of CS 1 also aligns with Rean's personality, yet Valimar didn't care one iota, so that's not a valid argument either.

The decision being "thought out" doesn't make it one bit any less completely unnecessary & reckless from a standpoint of Rean's and Valimar's survival, so that's not a rational excuse as to why Valimar would allow it, if we are going with the premise that Valimar disobeys Rean's will when it's in the best interest of Rean's survival for Valimar to do so.

[Koby]

Nope. It's just Dragon being Dragon.

Rajang's Left Big Toe explained it pretty perfectly in a way I couldn't put into words.