Serious question about the setting.

[Talithmara]

Disclaimer: I have been playing JRPGs for over 20 years and am annoyed with modern trends. Some hardcore Otaku who enjoy these trends may take offense to my desire for a bucking of trends. This is not about that. I'm looking for an explanation, not a debate. Thank you for understanding.











What I do know: The game takes place in Erebonia. I know about Erebonia due to Trails in the Sky, so I'm curious to see how they flesh it out.

What I don't know: Why they seemingly felt the need to adopt Japan's obsession with school as a central part of the setting, instead of the school just being part of the world like in the Liberl Arc. The only good thing I could anticipate is a Harry Potter approach, where the school is used for convenient worldbuilding and to cultivate their skills, and then it's left behind later in the series... and unfortunately, I've seen like... one? One piece of Japanese media that had the balls to leave the school behind?



Sorry if this seems intolerant of other cultures or anything, but I've seen several great series ruined by shoehorning in unneeded school nonsense that just went completely 180 against what had already been established. (If you want an example, Valkyria Chronicles 2 is the only example I NEED, it proves my concern tens of thousands of times over!)

I mean, I know WHY Japan likes school settings; the return to less stressful days, and a convenient excuse for what the characters are doing when they're not on screen. I simply don't understand their continued insistence on shoehorning it into the central narrative of things like high fantasy settings, war stories, or basically most stories that aren't modern day (See: There's MORE THAN ONE anime that genderswaps historical figures from the Sengoku era and shoves them into a school together. MORE THAN ONE!) - where it's more cringe and derailment than any good it could have added.

I mean, sure, the Bracer Guild having international police powers was kinda bull, but at least that was a job that makes sense to travel around and see the country. What, is this going to be a series of field trips? I legitimately do not get how anyone thought this was a good idea, is all.

[RegalStar]

Publicado originalmente por ZWabbit:

Never had a problem with VC2's setting. Also enjoyed the game immensely. Had good characters, so to me it proves nothing as to why school settings are a problem and serves as an example of how it can make games enjoyable. To each their own.

Anime was a mistake, etc.

and formal secondary education as a whole seemed confined just to Jenis

Conversations between the military people in Sky (Julia, Kanone, etc.) clearly indicated that Liberl DOES have a military academy, and it is very likely not Jenis as the latter seems to be very science/liberal arts focused. And if Liberl of all countries have such a thing, it would seem rather obvious that Erebonia would have at least one.

[Talithmara]

Publicado originalmente por ZWabbit:

Never had a problem with VC2's setting. Also enjoyed the game immensely. Had good characters, so to me it proves nothing as to why school settings are a problem and serves as an example of how it can make games enjoyable. To each their own.

To be fair, if I played VC2 as a standalone, I may have felt the same way. However, the first game is a serious war drama (Well, as serious as you can get with giant fantasy tanks, those things were laughably dumb) and going from that to home ec classes is just the epitome of "Wait what why?"

VC1's lore also establishes that in Gallia, every school has military training in case civilians need to be drafted. So what's with Lanseal? Is it a new facility to replace the catastrophic losses from VC1? NOPE! It's Gallia's "oldest and most prestigious military academy." Well, okay, maybe that's just a more specialized school for those who want a career in the regular arm- NOPE! People who want to do other things are there, too!

VC2 basically goes "School is popular, let's do it" against everything that makes sense.


Still, if you like it, I don't want to take that from you. Just don't play VC1, then ;p

[ZWabbit]

Played VC1, never had any problem reconciling it with VC2. The characters we played as in VC1 were part of the militia, not part of the regular army. It's similar to how the US has the United States Army, the formal, professional standing army, and the Army of the United States, which is composed of conscripts and is only activated during times of war and which the US Army gets incorporated into during war. As such the training that happens in Gallia's schools and universities are basically akin to national guard/reservist and ROTC training. Lanseal is their equivalent of West Point. Those are very different things, both of which have their place.

[hyperknees91]

Because it made the tone dramatically different from the first game, which alienates fans.

Anime school settings are very hard to take seriously unless it's actually about school life. Like say honey and clover. It's also just uncreative at this point.

[RegalStar]

Publicado originalmente por hyperknees91:

Because it made the tone dramatically different from the first game, which alienates fans.

Well, tell that to the people who bash sequels that are more of the same because "it's more like an expansion"

Anime school settings are very hard to take seriously unless it's actually about school life. Like say honey and clover. It's also just uncreative at this point.

says you / there's nothing new under the sun

[hyperknees91]

Changing the tone is generally a bad idea. I'm not saying vc2 shouldn't exist. But people would be much more accepting of it if it wasn't called VC. Using brand recognition has to be done wisely.

In the anime medium there is nothing more over used as a setting. Which is what I'm referring to.

[Gambio]

Whelp this thread is about Valkyria Chronicles now

What really killed me is how VC2 single handedly destroyed something that could have been a long running and amazing franchise. The first game did a fantastic job at World Building and there were plenty of options for the sequel to go from there,

They decided to go for the worst possible route, a sequel that takes place before the last scene of the original game and in the same Country.

Going from a calm and collected Protagonist that is over 20(!) to Highschool Naruto didn't exactly help either, nor the fact that pretty much nothing happens before the last few battles

[RegalStar]

There's nothing that links "being used a lot" to "being crap". A setting by itself is, jut that, a setting. There's nothing inherently good or bad about it no matter how often or not it is used. There's a distinct difference between "I don't like it" and "it is bad".

[Talithmara]

Publicado originalmente por RegalStar:

There's nothing that links "being used a lot" to "being crap". A setting by itself is, jut that, a setting. There's nothing inherently good or bad about it no matter how often or not it is used. There's a distinct difference between "I don't like it" and "it is bad".

School settings CAN be great if done right; the teenaged years are when we're getting our best mental growth as people, and when we really become the people we'll be as adults. There's so much potential to tell interesting stories with great development.

The problem is, finding a school setting done right is like finding something precious in a wildfire. You just get burnt way too bad trying to get to that prize, and your burns mean you barely get to enjoy the reward as much as you would have if you hadn't suffered for it.

Being sick of it is my own personal preference and I never claimed otherwise. However, what isn't a matter of personal preference is that it's an oversaturated genre. Studios resort to the school thing, and in doing so, bury both themselves and the good examples under the sheer number of school settings flooding Japanese media.

[hyperknees91]

Publicado originalmente por RegalStar:

There's nothing that links "being used a lot" to "being crap". A setting by itself is, jut that, a setting. There's nothing inherently good or bad about it no matter how often or not it is used. There's a distinct difference between "I don't like it" and "it is bad".

Iike said it shows a lack of creativity. Which means it's not going to be very fresh.also it simply was poorly used in cold steel because they exaggerated the characters so much. Despite being a school their entrance exam was far far more dynamic and rediculous then Estelles final bracer exam. Despite the fact they'll be fighting often all the girls are in miniskirts (it was already silly when Estelle changed to one but she doesn't seem to care). One of the girls has no apparent muscle but lifts a giant greatsword.

The setting simply doesn't work in the series which has otherwise been more grounded.

[ZWabbit]

The prologue was not an entrance exam. They already passed the entrance exam to get into the school in the first place.

[Erpy]

Publicado originalmente por hyperknees91:

Publicado originalmente por RegalStar:

Despite the fact they'll be fighting often all the girls are in miniskirts (it was already silly when Estelle changed to one but she doesn't seem to care). One of the girls has no apparent muscle but lifts a giant greatsword.

The setting simply doesn't work in the series which has otherwise been more grounded.

It's not like Scherazard's outfit was particularly suitable for fighting...or posing as a law enforcement official.

And don't get me started on the 12-year old who lugs a gigantic gattling gun along...which is mentioned in a cutscene as actually existing and not just a cool battle effect. XD

[hyperknees91]

Publicado originalmente por Erpy:

Publicado originalmente por hyperknees91:

It's not like Scherazard's outfit was particularly suitable for fighting...or posing as a law enforcement official.

And don't get me started on the 12-year old who lugs a gigantic gattling gun along...which is mentioned in a cutscene as actually existing and not just a cool battle effect. XD

The thing is schera likes being sexy and yes there is some silliness in sky but cold steel goes way beyond that.

[Wuffles]

For the people who left the Tales of series, I urge you to try Tales of Berseria.

It's the best Tales I've played since Tales of Vesperia. It's the type of game where you feel kind of sad after finishing it, because you miss the characters nad you want to see more of them and their adventures.

[Talithmara]

If you mean Tita's gatling gun, yeah, it's her grandfather's, I think? Comes into play when she can't use her Orbal Cannon, I remember that well. I agree that it's madness that she can lug it around in addition to her other gear (How does she even handle her cannon's recoil!?) but there's room for a little suspension of disbelief when you consider that Orbments can somehow directly impact your physical abilities.

Schera was more of a mage at least. If Estelle or Anelace or one of the frontliners wore something like her, I'd be like "Seriously, what?" While I agree it's weird that Schera never left the circus-style attire behind, considering her backstory, perhaps it's possible she felt it would make people underestimate her, which she could use to her advantage. (Also, while Estelle is quick to remind her that sex appeal is not a guild-approved weapon, Schera understands how to get information out of men, and the clothes do help.) That's not to say that I like Schera's design; I don't. I just managed to justify it to myself over time. (Which is something I've never been able to do with skirts, unless they were like... armored faulds that covered gaps between the torso plate and the greaves)

Granted, the designs are light on armor in general, which makes sense, due to tanks. Against massive penetrating power, armor won't save you. I actually approve of the strapped-on pauldrons and such - reminds me of old fashioned jack links or whatever they were called, strips of metal tied to gambesons to try to stop a slash from biting deep. It's like, "Oh, I'm right handed, my weapon is on my right, I'll put a pauldron on the left to cover for not parrying as efficiently on that side. I'd take that over school blazers any day (but I forgive Kloe since she's cute and Sieg is badass.)


EDIT:

Publicado originalmente por Wuffles:

For the people who left the Tales of series, I urge to try Tales of Berseria.

It's the best Tales I've played since Tales of Vesperia. It's the type of game where you feel kind of sad after finishing it, because you miss the characters nad you want to see more of them and their adventures.

As it's a companion game to Zestiria, which was bad, I want to avoid it on sheer principle of not rewarding them for Zestiria, sorry. Not to mention, they use Denuvo, and my net can be flaky, so mandatory online check-in DRM is an absolute middle finger to me.