How diablerie works in V5 (and how it possibly relates to Phyre)

[Clever Name]

Apologies if some people have already discussed this and it's very obvious to them; this post is more for those who aren't well-versed in the rules and lore.

I was reading the V5 corebook the other day, and I paid close attention to how diablerie is described.

In a nutshell: if the diablerist succeeds in draining their victim (i.e, if it isn't interrupted), the victim's body dies and turns to dust instantly.

Only then does a mental contest begin, wherein the diablerist can lose control of their mind and thus become the host body to the mind/spirit of their victim. While V20 hinted at this possibility, V5 actually codifies it in hard rules.

Phyre's name (including the spelling) and styling would indicate that she is probably a modern thinblood who diablerized an elder named Fabian, destroyed his body in the process, and subsequently lost, or partially lost (as the plot requires) the mental contest.

The runes on her body were probably part of a thinblood alchemy ritual, or something similar, designed to help during the diablerie.

The narrative will probably be designed in such a way as to confuse us; which ideas and memories are coming from which mind/spirit. Even if Fabian is depicted as the one who knows 21st century technology and culture, that doesn't mean it's true. Phyre/Fabian won't understand where one ends and the other begins.

[Hao Zhao]

This theory doesn't work at all. Phyre has been around for hundreds of years and other characters know her by reputation under that specific name.

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

This theory doesn't work at all. Phyre has been around for hundreds of years and other characters know her by reputation under that specific name.

Do they? Or will they know her as 'the slayer of Cairo', or something else?

[Clever Name]

Also, don't forget that we're literally making up our history as we go through the game. Which means people really don't know solid details about Phyre's life at all.

And most/all the elders who might remember specifics, are gone.

[Hao Zhao]

Originally posted by Clever Name:

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

This theory doesn't work at all. Phyre has been around for hundreds of years and other characters know her by reputation under that specific name.

Do they? Or will they know her as 'the slayer of Cairo', or something else?

They do. Lou Grand immediately recognises her and calls her Phyre when they meet for the first time.

You can also only have "Slayer of Cairo" and whatever else work if there's a common name that you can attach them all to, otherwise all of these other names may as well be interpreted as different people. That's not much of a reputation.

[Hao Zhao]

Originally posted by Clever Name:

Also, don't forget that we're literally making up our history as we go through the game. Which means people really don't know solid details about Phyre's life at all.

And most/all the elders who might remember specifics, are gone.

We're not making up our reputation. What we get to choose is whether or not the legends around Phyre are real or just myths. So regardless of whether Phyre is actually the Slayer of Cairo, people are still calling her that behind her back

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

Originally posted by Clever Name:

Do they? Or will they know her as 'the slayer of Cairo', or something else?

They do. Lou Grand immediately recognises her and calls her Phyre when they meet for the first time.

You're assuming a lot. Surely Grand would be told of Phyre's presence in her domain well before they met face-to-face.

Why would Lou Grand immediately recognize an elder who's been out of circulation for a century?

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

Originally posted by Clever Name:

Also, don't forget that we're literally making up our history as we go through the game. Which means people really don't know solid details about Phyre's life at all.

And most/all the elders who might remember specifics, are gone.

We're not making up our reputation. What we get to choose is whether or not the legends around Phyre are real or just myths. So regardless of whether Phyre is actually the Slayer of Cairo, people are still calling her that behind her back

What would the purpose of that choice even be? We can choose if it's real or fake, to what end?

I don't see the point.

Neither of us knows if there was anything preceding that part of the story, wherein we could've been known as something else, had we made different choices.

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

Originally posted by Clever Name:

Do they? Or will they know her as 'the slayer of Cairo', or something else?

They do. Lou Grand immediately recognises her and calls her Phyre when they meet for the first time.

Um, I just re-watched the clip where Phyre meets Lou for the first time, and Lou doesn't even know Phyre's name at all.

Phyre literally introduces herself to Lou, as Phyre.

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

The mere fact that they have heard of "the slayer of Cairo" and know that Phyre is supposed to be said slayer, would indicate that at least somebody in the city recognizes who they are, and has some degree of knowledge about their history.

All they know is that an elder woke up from torpor, and claims to be so-and-so.

We don't know how many conversations occurred between the start of the game and when we have that conversation in the warehouse. There are any number of ways we could've chosen to be called a 'slayer' beforehand.

For instance, maybe when we talk to somebody right after awakening, we can tell them a little blurb about our origins (whatever we choose), and that gets spread around ahead of us.

Notice Phyre asks Willem (or whatever the Nosferatu's name is) what rumors he's heard about her?

Why would there be rumors about an elder that's been in torpor for so long? Nobody would even care about her. But if there was gossip going on in the modern day about her, since she awoke, then yeah, there will be recent rumors.

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Clever Name:

Why would there be rumors about an elder that's been in torpor for so long? Nobody would even care about her. But if there was gossip going on in the modern day about her, since she awoke, then yeah, there will be recent rumors.

They would very much care about her, and there would very much be rumors about her. Especially in 5th edition, when all the elders are getting called off to war.

Elders are major power players in vampire society. They've retained their positions for centuries, because they crushed any potential rivals to the competition on their way up the chain of command.

I'm saying they wouldn't be talking about her until she woke up and she told them who she was.

If she wasn't standing right in front of them, they'd have no specific reason to talk about one of many elders who may or may not still be in torpor, may have met final death without anyone knowing when and how, may have gone off to heed the Beckoning, etc.

In other words, there are only rumors circulating about her, because she woke up and started telling people whatever history she wants, and they only have a vague notion of how plausible it may be.

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

That's not the kind of threat you just leave sleeping in their tomb and forget about.

There are many ancient vampires far older, more powerful and more important than Phyre, who manage to remain hidden in torpor for longer than a hundred years.

Phyre was discovered either by accident or revealed by someone who learned of her exact torpor location as part of some greater scheme.

[Gesuma]

hmm...
Was it clear that the local vamps knows about you being an elder at sleep before you wake up?
I assume we were hidden and someone found us and made a plan with us in the centre of it - ritual and all. I do not think we have enough info yet, either way.

[Gesuma]

btw - some of the concept art we have seen somewhat support the theory of a thinblood drinking an elder.

In the concept art we were shown an Male elder in in torpor and seemingly in a storyboard continuing of concept art we see a female arm with the marks on it. It was in one of the official videos. It could just be concept art that had male version and female right after each other... But I could see the idea of this making sense.

[Axus]

Interesting idea! I'd expect them to craft some kind of twist like this. When is this gameplay video coming out, grr... probably in the 20s.

[Polyedra]

I think it's a great theory and story, Clever. In my mind it fits very well with Fabian, the runes and with the punk name.

[Polyedra]

It's intriguing that they talk about 'sides'. Then there must be sides to take. That implies non-linearity, at least hint it.