Lasombra or Followers of Seth?

[DarkGlam]

I would like to play these two, I hope we have more freedoom than ever before

[Anvos]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Though it begs the question of HOW they managed to convince the younger Giovanni to go along with it?

Same reason as why the Anarchs fight the Cammarilla, the youth wanted Grandpa's stuff and power, feeling "The Man" was unfairly holding them down.

Though lets face it Augustus has Dominate, so it could have also just been him using his power to make them do it, if this has all been a conspiracy by him to take over all the death clans long term.

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Clever Name:

So you whine when you think V5 made Nosferatu less ugly, and now you whine when I give you direct examples of how they're mechanically still very ugly in V5?

They can still use Obfuscate to hide how ugly they are, but for obvious reasons (like smell, like the sound of a deformed limb shuffling, maybe), it's not perfectly effective. Thus the penalty applied to it.

Sounds pretty logical to me.

It's not whining.

And as I said, giving them scabs and pustules is not extreme enough to qualify for Nosferatu. I don't want a filthy hobo living under the free way, I want an honest to gods Count Orlock

No, it's whining because every time I provide evidence that something in V5 doesn't work the way you think it does (as you don't own the books, your conclusions are based on second-hand and incomplete information), you ignore the greater issue and search for something else to nitpick.

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

But you've completely missed the point when it comes to Obfuscate.

No, I didn't.

As I already explained, Nosferatu can still disguise themselves, but it's just more difficult than it is for normal clans.

Your entire counter argument revolves around them not being able to disguise themselves at all, which I very clearly stated was not the case.

Mask of a Thousand Faces doesn't require a skill check against unsuspecting mortals. The penalty only applies when doing contests against somebody using Auspex. Which is why I said things like smells and sounds are more likely to break the illusion.

The greater a Nosferatu's blood potency, the greater the penalty to disguising themselves. Implying that Nos get uglier and/or more repulsive with age. It's harder to maintain the illusion.

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Yes you did. Because as I pointed out, Obfuscate shouldn't be more difficult for them. It's for that very reason why the Nosferatu became addicted to using it. It allowed them to conceal their curse, reclaim their lost beauty, and be treated like actual human beings again.

What part of 'the penalty only applies to Auspex contests' do you not understand? They could parade around even other vampires and as long as nobody tried to break the illusion with Auspex, it'd still hold up.

At this rate you're being intentionally obtuse just so you don't have to concede the point.

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

I will happily discuss 5th edition with players both new and old.

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Clever Name:

No, it's whining because every time I provide evidence that something in V5 doesn't work the way you think it does (as you don't own the books, your conclusions are based on second-hand and incomplete information), you ignore the greater issue and search for something else to nitpick.

If you consider respecting and defending 20 something years of previously established lore that is now being completely disregarded and constantly ♥♥♥♥ on by 5th edition as 'nitpicking', then sure.

V5 is not a continuation of Masquerade, no matter what the developers or sponsored players may tell you. It is a reboot, and a shoddy one at that.

See, you're not actually discussing anything anymore. You're just complaining and insulting the product you don't like, even when someone painstakingly explains why the product isn't that bad.

[LotR[Henchman]]

Hm i still dislike V5s resonance system and the amlagam powers.
The first because i dislike this "choose the pray out of power gaming reasons" stuff attached to the feeding. The later because it throws a wrench into the, as far as i understood those rules, hard limits on how many powers you got per disciplines point - so the powers of ol' disciplines are now taking slots within other disciplines and reducing the potential there...

Then again i never really was a big fan of VtM to begin with. I'm too much of a fan of a bit more crunchy point buy systems to truly like VtM.

[Anvos]

Well yes its pretty much a given that like the default xp suggestion resonance is one of the most ignored/homebrewed parts of V5.

[Anvos]

Ironically the idea of resonance originated from Brian Mitsoda's pitch for Bloodlines 2.

Now I like the concept that intense emotion can provide a sense of euphoria or whatever that satisfies the beast in a way that makes it slightly easier to use disciplines of the same type.

I however dislike the implementation and it could be improved, such as
A. No tier system and defiantly no dyscrasia, a vessel either has it or it doesn't and you don't get xp for any resonance.

B. Making getting a resonance something you get from critting on a feeding roll and having a herd gives you one set type. With this Blood Hound would let you determine which resonance you get and tell if any surrounding NPCs have resonance.

C. You can get primal(animal) and empty (oblivion) from humans but basically they'd only get a 1/10 shot while the other 4 types get 2/10 chance, when rolling a d10 to randomize resonance.

D. Remove the stupid optional rule of needing resonance to level disciplines.

[eijibayushi]

Fortitude all of a sudden offering mental power resistance really gums up some of the lore and just how things worked. So now all of a sudden Gangrel can possibly easily resist the ventrue's powers of persusaion just cause? It also can really muck things up if Gargoyles ever come back. "Oh guess what Tremere? We can resist dominate now". Like, what?

[Anvos]

That one is simple, Gargoyles are just considered exceptionally vulnerable to dominate. Before the destruction of Vienna causing them to develop a true bane there was also the blood bonding them option.

[Polyedra]

I'd like to say that physical fortitude gives a certain mental calm.
While that makes sense to me, it's not what I'd expect to be the primary source of mental resilience. That's disturbing to me.

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Honestly, this stuff about Resonance and Predator Types completely misses the point of what the Beast is supposed to be.

The Beast, true to its name, is an animal, mindless and savage. It doesn't care what kind of blood you're drinking, or how you go about procuring it. It just wants to feed, and that is a fact which Hunger Frenzy makes painfully obvious.

The beast doesn't control us all the time. Obviously.

Predator type matters when you think of how you go about feeding from one night to another. I think it makes perfect sense to develop a pattern. It's a reflection of your psychological proclivities as well as your clan's strengths and weaknesses.

It'd make sense for somebody shy and reclusive to be a Bagger or a Sandman (former is self-explanatory, latter is feeding from sleeping or unconscious people).

On the opposite end of the spectrum, there's Osiris, Scene Queen, and Siren. All involve feeding with charisma, more or less.

With the arrival of clans like the Hecata, new predator types were made for them. Graverobber, which allows you to feed from the recent dead, and Grim Reaper, which has you feed from the sick and dying (i.e, drugged or comatose in a hospital setting).

You don't have to feed that way all the time. It's your preferred method. When your hunger is high enough, the beast will predictably take over and you'll rip open the nearest neck.

Once again, you make a faulty assumption based on a lack of precise knowledge of how these systems work. Those faulty conclusions allow you to reinforce your endless negativity loop regarding all things V5 related.

As for resonance, this was something hinted at as far back as when Jack talks about feeding from a PhD in the Bloodlines tutorial. I mean, why shouldn't people taste different? How utterly boring to have all blood be exactly alike.

It's also implied by the Ventrue feeding habits.

There's also anecdotal evidence of humans who get blood transfusions and donated organs, having slight personality changes and different interests afterwards. I've personally known a few people who've experienced the phenomenon after getting large amounts of blood transfused.

It might all be a delusion and soft science, but it's perfectly decent fodder for a game about vampires.

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Ventrue are pompous, arrogant fops with a superiority complex and a stick up their collective asses. They really shouldn't be used as a measurement for the whole blood quality issue.

The point is that they can tell the difference between vessels.

To say nothing of the fact that in V20, various drugs in the bloodstream of vessels had an impact on vampires' physical and mental states.

I don't see resonance as being one bit different. It's just a more detailed system.

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Clever Name:

I don't see resonance as being one bit different. It's just a more detailed system.

The difference is that one is a chemical substance introduced into the bloodstream, and the other is pseudo-science BS that was defunct by the medical world back in the 1850's.

Who cares?

If we were to apply logic to it, having drugs affect the system of a corpse is pretty idiotic.

Therefore, logic doesn't apply in either case, drugs or resonances.

At least resonance fits with the classically primitive myth that eating your enemies and drinking their blood gives you their power. I mean, the entire concept of diablerie involves eating a vampire's soul, via their blood.

[LotR[Henchman]]

@Anvos
Yeah i would have thought so. I think it reads somewhat nice on paper, but i don't imagine it being a cool thing in actual mechanics. But then again, not speaking from actual experience here.

[Anvos]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

What do you mean by develop a 'true bane'?

Because being vulnerable to Dominate, being an instant masquerade violation, AND the act of becoming a Gargoyle giving you a total memory wipe of your previous life wasn't considered punishing enough?

I obviously meant the Tremere and how they can control gargoyles beyond dominate.