Lasombra or Followers of Seth?

[DarkGlam]

I would like to play these two, I hope we have more freedoom than ever before

[DarkGlam]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Lasombra is just Ventrue with ties to the catholic church instead of major corporations.

Followers of Set would be very interesting, though.

LOL no, powers of lasombra are cool. I would also like Tzimisces

[Coffee Break Hero]

lol I wanna play a Nagaraja, and have the proper gameplay consequences and animations and unique dialogue...
one can hope...
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Nihilistics

[DarkGlam]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by DarkGlam:

LOL no, powers of lasombra are cool. I would also like Tzimisces

Having different powers doesn't make them thematically different from the Ventrue. The clans are functionally the same, just that the Ventrue are wrapped up in business, and the Lasombra are wrapped up in religious institution.

Not the same, did you play Swansong? Ventrue was played more like a nightclub bouncer. Lasombra would be very different more like a mix of Toreador-Nosferatu with unique telekinesis powers made of pure shadows, very unique for an action rpg, action game after all.

[DarkGlam]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by DarkGlam:

Not the same, did you play Swansong? Ventrue was played more like a nightclub bouncer. Lasombra would be very different more like a mix of Toreador-Nosferatu with unique telekinesis powers made of pure shadows, very unique for an action rpg, action game after all.

Hell no I didn't play Swansong. I was looking for a Vampire: the Masquerade game, not a point and click detective simulator that has no combat outside of cinematic QTE's

And if that's your example of what to go by with the clans, I'd like to inform you it's a rather poor example.

In the wider expanse of the game's lore and setting, the Lasombra fill the same role for the Sabbat, that the Ventrue serve for the Camarilla. Which is to say, they're predominately the ones at the top of the status quo. They're the ones who bark orders to the rest of the Sabbat, and make sure their operations are running smoothly and you don't end up with cluster ♥♥♥♥♥ like the warehouse getting bombed by some fresh faced neonate straight out of the embrace.

Where the two clans diverge, however, is where in society they decided to build their power base. The Ventrue decided to go with the upper class and privileged elite members of society, which eventually transitioned into them focusing on corporations and mercantile interprises.

While the Lasombra decided to seize control by infiltrating the catholic church and ruling it from the shadows. Unfortunately, this plan might have resulted in it backfiring on them after a while, but it was a good effort.

you contradict yourself, if you were a true roleplayer you would loved swansong because has more choices than any other point and click (not a detective simulator sorry) you should try it, it may have some puzzles but you can solve things in different ways and have very different endings, also has dices like in baldurs gate 3. Swansong is very good. I hope Bloodlines is more sandbox like Starfield or Skyrim with enough mission archs, freedoom and customization. Swansong was at the level of Detroit become human wich is also a masterpiece on interactive storytelling.

Lasombra are more like Toreador-Malkavian-Nosferatu mix in Sabbat, while Tzimisce are Ventrue-Tremere-Gangrel mix. Sabbath has way less clans and every sabbath are more sophisticated. I would like Sabbath to be playable, at least with a DLC

[Hao Zhao]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Lasombra is just Ventrue with ties to the catholic church instead of major corporations.

Followers of Set would be very interesting, though.

People who think Ventrue and Lasombra are even remotely the same do not understand either of these clans. They are almost polar opposites.

If you're in trouble as a Ventrue, you ask for favours and the clan rallies behind you. At some point you'll have to pay back those favours when other Ventrue need help. One hand washes the other. The Ventrue stick together to maintain their dominance over the other clans.

If you're in trouble as a Lasombra, you had better keep it to yourself. if you go to the clan for help, they will laugh at you and then crush you. The Lasombra do not tolerate weakness. The weak will be purged and only the strong will survive.

[Hao Zhao]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

People who think Ventrue and Lasombra are even remotely the same do not understand either of these clans. They are almost polar opposites.

If you're in trouble as a Ventrue, you ask for favours and the clan rallies behind you. At some point you'll have to pay back those favours when other Ventrue need help. One hand washes the other. The Ventrue stick together to maintain their dominance over the other clans.

If you're in trouble as a Lasombra, you had better keep it to yourself. if you go to the clan for help, they will laugh at you and then crush you. The Lasombra do not tolerate weakness. The weak will be purged and only the strong will survive.

That's not them being polar opposites, that's just the Lasombra taking what the Ventrue already have (superiority over the competition) and cranking it up to 11. Much like everyone else who joins the Sabbat, they're a dark reflection of what the Camarilla might have been.

Both clans have a reputation for achieving positions of authority at the top of their respective sects / factions. The Lasombra are just much more ruthless in going about it.

While the Ventrue may try to weasel you into some form of social contract you're obligated to uphold, the Lasombra will just flat out demand your compliance, if you wish to keep your kneecaps.

No, they're polar opposites. One clan is a community that preserves a common good for the benefit of all members. The other clan is a pit of Social Darwinist gladiators all competing with each other and with no sense of fraternity.

There's also a common misconception here about clans that seek power. The clans that seek power are literally all of them. The Ventrue are just better at it. The guy running the tightest ship in Bloodlines 1 wasn't Lacroix or any other ventrue, though. The guy who has his act most together in BL1 was a Toreador named Isaac. The Prince in Night Road was a Gangrel. The guy overseeing the interests of the Camarilla in BL1 was a Tremere. The Prince of New York City was a Nosferatu.

Everyone wants to get ahead and no one is going to turn down power if it is offered to them.

[Coffee Break Hero]

That was interesting to read.

[Leon]

" Lasombra as social darwinists that reject weakness "

Now that explains why i just had a game over screen in "Shadows of New York" for not being a psycho =D what a relief

Originally posted by DarkGlam:

Lasombra or Followers of Seth?

I'm not into political or social clans, i'm a Gangrel guy, but when i feel like having some variaty and going social, its Followers of Set no doubt.

Gnostic weresnakes coming from Egypt, having a unique religion of their own, worshiping Set as the True first Vampire, and that clan curse that makes them even more creatures of the dark.
TOO DAMN COOL

Love Priscilla from "The Anarch Tales"

[Hao Zhao]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

No, they're polar opposites. One clan is a community that preserves a common good for the benefit of all members. The other clan is a pit of Social Darwinist gladiators all competing with each other and with no sense of fraternity.

There's also a common misconception here about clans that seek power. The clans that seek power are literally all of them. The Ventrue are just better at it. The guy running the tightest ship in Bloodlines 1 wasn't Lacroix or any other ventrue, though. The guy who has his act most together in BL1 was a Toreador named Isaac. The Prince in Night Road was a Gangrel. The guy overseeing the interests of the Camarilla in BL1 was a Tremere. The Prince of New York City was a Nosferatu.

Everyone wants to get ahead and no one is going to turn down power if it is offered to them.

If the Ventrue put on a show of unity, it is purely for the sake of making themselves appear more organized than they actually are to the lesser clans.

Do not forget that the Ventrue historically embraced from royals, nobles, and the upper elites. Members of society who were utterly notorious for betraying and assassinating each other so that they might seize power for themselves.

Inheriting the crown was easy, managing to keep said crown was where things became difficult.

Now, you take a bunch of people who were already power hungry egomaniacs when they were human, and turn them into blood sucking immortals, who have to struggle to keep The Beast in check. Yeah, they are not on friendly terms with each other...

You have no idea how the table top game works. Tabletop Kindred (and especially Ventrue) society works on a system called Prestation. If you incur a debt, it has to be paid back or you're finished. All clans will reject you including your own clan. Ventrue intentionally set up people to become indebted to them knowing that those favours HAVE to be repaid. Over centuries, everyone owes favours to someone which creates a massive web of favours that ties the clan together in a way that cannot be untied.

[Hao Zhao]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

You have no idea how the table top game works. Tabletop Camarilla (and especially Ventrue) society works on a system called Prestation. If you incur a debt, it has to be paid back or you're finished. All clans will reject you including your own clan. Ventrue intentionally set up people to become indebted to them knowing that those favours HAVE to be repaid. Over centuries, everyone owes favours to someone which creates a massive web of favours that ties the clan together in a way that cannot be untied.

Can you please point to the exact spot in your reply where any of that is meant to prove they are unified and cooperative with each other?

Because I'm fairly certain that extortion is not how you establish bonds of loyalty with each other.

What do you think doing a favour or repaying a favour means if not cooperating with someone else? lol

What's the alternative? "I'm doing you a favour and actively spiting you"? Really now.

[Hao Zhao]

Originally posted by lazarusblack:

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

You have no idea how the table top game works. Tabletop Kindred (and especially Ventrue) society works on a system called Prestation. If you incur a debt, it has to be paid back or you're finished. All clans will reject you including your own clan. Ventrue intentionally set up people to become indebted to them knowing that those favours HAVE to be repaid. Over centuries, everyone owes favours to someone which creates a massive web of favours that ties the clan together in a way that cannot be untied.

You mistake prestation for honour. It isn't. It's as parasitic as everything Kindred.

The fact it has a veneer of civility is largely an illusion that the Ventrue have bought into. Behind the mask it's still the beast in a suit.

Prestation is definitely based on selfishness but that doesn't change the fact that it is a binding system in tabletop that GM has never heard of until I mentioned it. lol

[Hao Zhao]

Originally posted by lazarusblack:

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

Prestation is definitely based on selfishness but that doesn't change the fact that it is a binding system in tabletop that GM has never heard of until I mentioned it. lol

What is with the gatekeeping?

Majora expressed an opinion one that I would concur with I might add, and I've been with white wolf and the WoD since the first edition.

You got bent out of shape because you didn't like it? Are Ventrue your favourite clan or something? Why do you feel the need to refute someones opinion?

Looking through the threads here, your just constantly butting heads with people for no good reason.

Opinions and facts are not the same thing. His opinions are not based on table top materials. I've asked in the past for him to provide book names and page numbers for the stuff he claims and he never does it. He's purposely misleading people with fake news.

[Hao Zhao]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

Opinions and facts are not the same thing.

That is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hilarious, because I'm pretty sure if you tried to say that to certain people on the internet these days, you'd get banned...

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

His opinions are not based on table top materials. I've asked in the past for him to provide book names and page numbers for the stuff he claims and he never does it. He's purposely misleading people with fake news.

Alright, Hao, allow me to list of all the World of Darkness books I have sitting above my bed.

World of Darkness:

V20 (Vampire)
C20 (Changeling)

Chronicles of Darkness:

Core Rules (1st and 2nd edition).

Vampire: the Requiem (1st edition)
Werewolf: the Forsaken (1st edition)
Beast: the Primordial
Beast Player's Guide

----------------------------------

As you can see, I've bought quite a few books from them over the years. The V and C 20 ones being especially noteworthy, as they were supposed to be a compilation of their respective games' rules from their 20 something year run time.

------------------------

But if you want to keep talking ♥♥♥♥ about how I don't know what anything about the game, please list off all the books that you've got in your library?

Listing all of my books would take a very, very long time.

I also think it's hilarious that you're bragging about not owning any VTM book other than V20 corebook. You've confessed you don't own a single clan book which is why you don't know anything other than the most basic summaries of each clan. lol

I think it's doubly hilarious because Bloodlines 2 isn't based on V20, the one book you claim to own. It's based on V5.

[Hao Zhao]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

I think it's doubly hilarious because Bloodlines 2 isn't based on V20, the one book you claim to own. It's based on V5.

V5 is a piece of crap, that blatantly and undeniably retcons so much about the game's established mechanics, lore and world building, that Masquerade becomes damn near unrecognizable by the time it's finished.

You have never seen a single page of V5. Not one page.

Just like how you've never seen the V20 Camarilla book which explains in great detail how kindred society actually works. :)

[Hao Zhao]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

You have never seen a single page of V5. Not one page.

Remember when I said your attempts to counter our arguments were childish? THIS is what I'm talking about.

You seem to be of the opinion that just because I do not own a physical copy of the book and have it in my direct possession, that I must not be privy to the book's contents.

Well, prepare yourself for a reality check, as I inform you that THE INTERNET EXISTS!

I mean, my gods, how delusional do you have to be, that you can't wrap your head around the fact that people are free to discuss things with each other in a public forum?

I may not have bought the book, but I have watched multiple videos of people who DID, as they go over the book's contents and review the subject matter.

I have also watched play sessions of people who were using 5th edition's system, so I got a better understanding of how the game runs.

There are even wikis and fan sites online that cover changes to the lore and systems introduced with V5.

One does not need to be a paying customer in order to have an informed opinion. Simply cross interviewing people, and observing the product in action is enough.

Watching alt-right rage videos on YouTube about how "the wokes" are taking over the world through V5 is not the same as actually reading V5. Name the page on V5 that backs up your conspiracy theories, please.

The idea that you haven't seen a single page of V5 isn't an opinion. It's fact or else you would provide page numbers. :)

Thanks for the angry text wall, though, i guess. lol