VtM IS QUEER, DEAL WITH IT.

[Badass Trans Knight]

It always was, it was called Gothic Punk, the first editions of the TTRPG released had queer and black characters and topics of race and gender and sexuality were PROMINENTLY covered.

Read the source material morons, VtM has always been "for the gays" and it always will be. It was made by and for people that aren't cis het white losers.

Got a problem? Take it up with the original writers imbeciles.

Actually, take it up with the now dead writers of the first vampire stories; it's an allegory for sexuality, it wasn't straight hundreds of years ago and it sure as hell isn't now.

Read the biography of a single classic gothic writer, I beg of you, they are ALL GAY.

[Midnight_James]

Since when does inclusion mean replace?

It's not just this game, it's society in general. Trans athletes are allowed to complete with the opposite sex simply because they "Identify" as a certain gender. Forgetting the fact that genders are separated to provide fair competition where a males physique and muscle mass provides an obvious unfair advantage. But apparently it's now acceptable and socially normalised for a male to beat the ♥♥♥♥ out of a female in boxing as long as they "Identify" as that gender.

It's not acceptable, should never be acceptable and yet is perceived to be acceptable to replace as a "compromise" instead of simply allowing LGBTQ+ community to have their own place. This game is providing male and female "presenting" body types instead of clearly defined individual genders. I really wouldn't give a ♥♥♥♥ if there are pronouns other than he/she. But I do care that choosing between body types has little visual distinction. It's essentially twins, female doesn't have larger hips for giving birth, doesn't have different size breasts hard to tell if the right has A cup or if the left has moobs (man boobs), aside from a slight reduction of the waist, a slimming of the arms and a slight adjustment to the jaw line (all of which could just as easily be a male, not specific to female physiology), it's the same. And that's the issue, replacing isn't the answer.

Someone gave an example of Sense8, that is an example of inclusion.

This game is not!

VTM: Redemption was a single character (Male) called Kristof. It was only playable as a male and there was only 1 clan we could play.

VTM: Bloodlines had very clear and obvious differences between male and female. Muscle mass, broad shoulders, facial features, breast size.

Even the clans have clear and obvious differences between them aside from the clothes. Facial features, facial shapes, shoulders, arms, skin colour, breast size. It's not just a copy and paste with different clothes and hair styles like BL2 is pushing.

https://vtmb.fandom.com/wiki/The_Protagonist

Is this game called VTM: Swansong or whatever? No, it's called Bloodlines 2 because it claims to be a sequel to Bloodlines.

Nobody gives a ♥♥♥♥ if this game has gays or not, what we all care about is having defined characters that aren't "type A & B" which is the same just slight variations where it's male and male.

DEI is being used to replace instead of adding.

Deal with it!

[Badass Trans Knight]

Originally posted by Midnight_James:

Since when does inclusion mean replace?

It's not just this game, it's society in general. Trans athletes are allowed to complete with the opposite sex simply because they "Identify" as a certain gender. Forgetting the fact that genders are separated to provide fair competition where a males physique and muscle mass provides an obvious unfair advantage. But apparently it's now acceptable and socially normalised for a male to beat the ♥♥♥♥ out of a female in boxing as long as they "Identify" as that gender.

It's not acceptable, should never be acceptable and yet is perceived to be acceptable to replace as a "compromise" instead of simply allowing LGBTQ+ community to have their own place. This game is providing male and female "presenting" body types instead of clearly defined individual genders. I really wouldn't give a ♥♥♥♥ if there are pronouns other than he/she. But I do care that choosing between body types has little visual distinction. It's essentially twins, female doesn't have larger hips for giving birth, doesn't have different size breasts hard to tell if the right has A cup or if the left has moobs (man boobs), aside from a slight reduction of the waist, a slimming of the arms and a slight adjustment to the jaw line (all of which could just as easily be a male, not specific to female physiology), it's the same. And that's the issue, replacing isn't the answer.

Someone gave an example of Sense8, that is an example of inclusion.

This game is not!

VTM: Redemption was a single character (Male) called Kristof. It was only playable as a male and there was only 1 clan we could play.

VTM: Bloodlines had very clear and obvious differences between male and female. Muscle mass, broad shoulders, facial features, breast size.

Even the clans have clear and obvious differences between them aside from the clothes. Facial features, facial shapes, shoulders, arms, skin colour, breast size. It's not just a copy and paste with different clothes and hair styles like BL2 is pushing.

https://vtmb.fandom.com/wiki/The_Protagonist

Is this game called VTM: Swansong or whatever? No, it's called Bloodlines 2 because it claims to be a sequel to Bloodlines.

Nobody gives a ♥♥♥♥ if this game has gays or not, what we all care about is having defined characters that aren't "type A & B" which is the same just slight variations where it's male and male.

DEI is being used to replace instead of adding.

Deal with it!

also nobody had an issue with generally androgynous characters when Undertale came out

newsflash, a relatively thin athletic man looks more or less the same as a relatively thin athletic woman; especially if they're wearing the same practical clothes

and looking nondescript is objectively a positive for a vampire

also it's a first person game, so obviously the player characters don't need to be that complex

stop whining.

[ultrashizman]

It also wasn't androgynous. Western vampires are support to be sex symbols, not sterilized androgynous blobs.

[Badass Trans Knight]

Originally posted by Midnight_James:

Since when does inclusion mean replace?

It's not just this game, it's society in general. Trans athletes are allowed to complete with the opposite sex simply because they "Identify" as a certain gender. Forgetting the fact that genders are separated to provide fair competition where a males physique and muscle mass provides an obvious unfair advantage. But apparently it's now acceptable and socially normalised for a male to beat the ♥♥♥♥ out of a female in boxing as long as they "Identify" as that gender.

It's not acceptable, should never be acceptable and yet is perceived to be acceptable to replace as a "compromise" instead of simply allowing LGBTQ+ community to have their own place. This game is providing male and female "presenting" body types instead of clearly defined individual genders. I really wouldn't give a ♥♥♥♥ if there are pronouns other than he/she. But I do care that choosing between body types has little visual distinction. It's essentially twins, female doesn't have larger hips for giving birth, doesn't have different size breasts hard to tell if the right has A cup or if the left has moobs (man boobs), aside from a slight reduction of the waist, a slimming of the arms and a slight adjustment to the jaw line (all of which could just as easily be a male, not specific to female physiology), it's the same. And that's the issue, replacing isn't the answer.

Someone gave an example of Sense8, that is an example of inclusion.

This game is not!

VTM: Redemption was a single character (Male) called Kristof. It was only playable as a male and there was only 1 clan we could play.

VTM: Bloodlines had very clear and obvious differences between male and female. Muscle mass, broad shoulders, facial features, breast size.

Even the clans have clear and obvious differences between them aside from the clothes. Facial features, facial shapes, shoulders, arms, skin colour, breast size. It's not just a copy and paste with different clothes and hair styles like BL2 is pushing.

https://vtmb.fandom.com/wiki/The_Protagonist

Is this game called VTM: Swansong or whatever? No, it's called Bloodlines 2 because it claims to be a sequel to Bloodlines.

Nobody gives a ♥♥♥♥ if this game has gays or not, what we all care about is having defined characters that aren't "type A & B" which is the same just slight variations where it's male and male.

DEI is being used to replace instead of adding.

Deal with it!

also, in the original bloodlines, you could make a gay character.

[Badass Trans Knight]

Originally posted by ultrashizman:

It also wasn't androgynous. Western vampires are support to be sex symbols, not sterilized androgynous blobs.

also I highly doubt you want to screw a nosferatu... or a ventrue... or a gangrel... toreador maybe I guess, but the player in this game is not a toreador.

really unless the vampire feeds through seduction there is no reason for them to stand out.

[ultrashizman]

Originally posted by Badass Trans Knight:

Originally posted by ultrashizman:

If I wanted to jackoff right now, why would I be talking to you? You're just trying so hard to for lack of a better turn, trans up the genre. They had sexy characters in the first game and you have arousal dialogue options. If you want to live in a sexless world devoid of pleasure, I suggest you check yourself into a padded room. That's another thing with you people. Why do you hate sex so much? Why do you hate people having fun? Why do you want this game to fail and the company to go out of business just to piss other people off? You don't care about this game, you're just selfish.

VtM's first edition was made by a bunch of gay androgynous goths to be played by gay androgynous goths.

You don't get to just walk in here and demand it be changed entirely to be straight for you; we were here FIRST.

If you want your straight sex fantasy vampires, make your own damn setting, or go read twilight.

What are you going to do when they game flops, blame most of the population for being straight? Gay people can make stories and have straight people enjoy them. I used to be a huge fan of Clive Barker's work.

[Badass Trans Knight]

Originally posted by ultrashizman:

Originally posted by Badass Trans Knight:

VtM's first edition was made by a bunch of gay androgynous goths to be played by gay androgynous goths.

You don't get to just walk in here and demand it be changed entirely to be straight for you; we were here FIRST.

If you want your straight sex fantasy vampires, make your own damn setting, or go read twilight.

What are you going to do when they game flops, blame most of the population for being straight? Gay people can make stories and have straight people enjoy them. I used to be a huge fan of Clive Barker's work.

it's exactly what a VtM game should be; if it flops it flops, at least it has the respect for the source material to not violate it by pandering to a bunch of straight losers so they can get their rocks off.

The source material is queer, the game follows the source material; to obey your entitled ass demands would violate the core ethos of the setting entirely.

[ultrashizman]

Originally posted by Badass Trans Knight:

Originally posted by ultrashizman:

What are you going to do when they game flops, blame most of the population for being straight? Gay people can make stories and have straight people enjoy them. I used to be a huge fan of Clive Barker's work.

it's exactly what a VtM game should be; if it flops it flops, at least it has the respect for the source material to not violate it by pandering to a bunch of straight losers so they can get their rocks off.

The source material is queer, the game follows the source material; to obey your entitled ass demands would violate the core ethos of the setting entirely.

Again, why do you hate sex and straight people? Maybe you should move to North Korea. Also, again you rather people loose their jobs. Wow, what a wonderful person you are. I bet you have many friends.

[Badass Trans Knight]

Originally posted by ultrashizman:

Originally posted by Badass Trans Knight:

not every female character exists for some white guy with a micropeen and a dead squirrel draped across his face to jack off to

women don't exist for your viewing pleasure.

Oh so you speak for all women now? Also key would there is character. They aren't even real. Also I thought you hated straight people. Why would you care how women are viewed?

in case you didn't know, we WOMEN don't want to play a sex object designed for straight men to jack off to; she's not a digital pinup poster

WE want a female character that's a badass vampire.

And what WE want for OUR FEMALE OPTION, is more important than what you straight men want; you have an option, we have an option, you have no right to dictate what our option is like, go focus on your own and demand he be more muscular or something.

[Badass Trans Knight]

Originally posted by ultrashizman:

Originally posted by Badass Trans Knight:

not every female character exists for some white guy with a micropeen and a dead squirrel draped across his face to jack off to

women don't exist for your viewing pleasure.

Oh so you speak for all women now? Also key would there is character. They aren't even real. Also I thought you hated straight people. Why would you care how women are viewed?

fact is the female option exists for the women playing her to enjoy, not for the men

what the women playing her want her to be is innately more important than what the men want

besides, there will be mods within the week changing her appearance; get tf over it and go on nexus.

[Big Poppa]

Looks like fiona is back.

[potatopower5]

Originally posted by Badass Trans Knight:

im a silly a little clown

such weak b8 ain't even worth a single jester smh

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by Badass Trans Knight:

And what WE want for OUR FEMALE OPTION, is more important than what you straight men want; you have an option, we have an option, you have no right to dictate what our option is like, go focus on your own and demand he be more muscular or something.

You do realise that you are not getting a "female option", just like men are not getting a "male option" in this game.

What you are getting is "feminine presenting and masculine presenting" charaters, which is NOT synonymous to women and men respectively. It can mean a woman, a man, or something else. So the game will NOT recognise a "feminine presenting" character as a woman, nor a "masculine presenting" character as a man. Their actual biological sexes/traditional genders are deliberately left ambiguous.

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by potatopower5:

Originally posted by Badass Trans Knight:

im a silly a little clown

such weak b8 ain't even worth a single jester smh

I don't believe it's bait or jester farming, this person has been posting similar stuff on other forums since about 2023, seemed pretty ordinary before that. So apparently it's their actual world view that became agitated about two years ago.

[Badass Trans Knight]

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

Originally posted by Badass Trans Knight:

And what WE want for OUR FEMALE OPTION, is more important than what you straight men want; you have an option, we have an option, you have no right to dictate what our option is like, go focus on your own and demand he be more muscular or something.

You do realise that you are not getting a "female option", just like men are not getting a "male option" in this game.

What you are getting is "feminine presenting and masculine presenting" charaters, which is NOT synonymous to women and men respectively. It can mean a woman, a man, or something else. So the game will NOT recognise a "feminine presenting" character as a woman, nor a "masculine presenting" character as a man. Their actual biological sexes/traditional genders are deliberately left ambiguous.

ok cool, don't care; point is there's a more feminine option that does not go off the rails into getting your ♥♥♥♥ hard at the expense of women playing

it isn't about what men want, it's about what women want, after all it's the option WE are intended to play as, not you.