No Malk on Release

[SHAQ FU]

I was willing to try and give a pass for this game for a while now. But this is the straw that broke the camel's back. No malk = refund. I truly wished for this game to succeed but it just isnt what it was supposed be anymore.

[Coffee Break Hero]

Your rant is accepted and you are heard.
The sadness librarian noted that the malkavians aren't in the game because they don't wish to be.

[Shinno]

Wait a bit for the last two clans.

[Grimreaper]

Did you think they were going to do Malk justice? Is probably better this way.

[Zeoniknights]

Originally posted by SHAQ FU:

I was willing to try and give a pass for this game for a while now. But this is the straw that broke the camel's back. No malk = refund. I truly wished for this game to succeed but it just isnt what it was supposed be anymore.

Play Swansong at least you can be 1 in that Game.

[BuffyFan2001]

Originally posted by Grimreaper:

Did you think they were going to do Malk justice? Is probably better this way.

Nope. That would be considered ableist nowadays. It stigmatizes mental illness and depicts mentally ill people as childish clowns. I mean... they're not wrong.

I mean, I'm all for clown oracles who act like children and sound incomprehensible, but it really shouldn't be connected with mental illness.

[Anvos]

When they announced one out of 6 clans would have a divergent narrative/stand alone story, that all but ensured if Malkavian was in VTMB 2 it would be that, and Banu Haqim shot the one unique discipline they had left to be part of the base 4 in the knee.

[BuffyFan2001]

Originally posted by W.R. Winter:

Originally posted by BuffyFan2001:

Nope. That would be considered ableist nowadays. It stigmatizes mental illness and depicts mentally ill people as childish clowns. I mean... they're not wrong.

as far as the first Bloodlines goes there weren't any clownish Malks, least of all the literal oracle, Rosa. but even if there were the mentally ill aren't sacred; they get stigmatized and stereotyped like everyone else.

What do you call the player character character speaking in word salad, dressing like a stripper or pimp, and arguing with stop signs?

[WVA]

Same feeling here. No malk=no deal. Just sent a refund request. To those still getting it hope you enjoy the game!

[Harukage]

Yeah sure, because there is only 1 kind of malkavian. The one who speaks cryptic gibberish and looks like a mental hospital patient.
Malkavians are very different, ranging from drooling malks in vegetative state and eternally frenzied ones, and ending with people who are indistiguishable from "norm" unless you dig deeper.
Stop expecting the same trope again again from a PC Malkavian.

[BuffyFan2001]

Originally posted by Harukage:

Yeah sure, because there is only 1 kind of malkavian. The one who speaks cryptic gibberish and looks like a mental hospital patient.
Malkavians are very different, ranging from drooling malks in vegetative state and eternally frenzied ones, and ending with people who are indistiguishable from "norm" unless you dig deeper.
Stop expecting the same trope again again from a PC Malkavian.

Word salad clown is what the fans expect. Anything else will be despised.

I can easily see how that whole concept is construed as ableist. Purely from an epistemic perspective, it’s nonsensical because mental illness is a social construct. There are numerous neurological and psychological abnormalities that we place under the umbrella of mental illness that have completely different origins, symptoms and pathologies. Some conditions were previously considered mental illnesses that now aren’t, such as being LGBT. It doesn’t make sense to make that a class shtick, and it also implies that no other vampires can suffer mental illness.

What I think would make more sense if mental illness was something any vampire could suffer. Since they’re magical creatures, some of them develop superpowers related to their mental illness. We don’t need a whole class/high school clique pigeonholed into the role of that weird kid in school.

It’s not like this franchise is worth continuing anymore. We might as well think of new ideas.

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by BuffyFan2001:

It doesn’t make sense to make that a class shtick, and it also implies that no other vampires can suffer mental illness.

This is your impression and nobody else's.

Ventrue and Toreador have plenty of headcases in their clans. Feral Gangrel and Nosferatu aren't exactly dealing with full decks.

What makes Malkavians special is the precise form of madness they all share. Literally the madness network where they all hear voices that pass on unreliable information to them.

Originally posted by BuffyFan2001:

It’s not like this franchise is worth continuing anymore. We might as well think of new ideas.

You've made it abundantly clear, with great repetition, how much you despise and disdain the World of Darkness and Vampire the Masquerade.

Why don't you go think of new ideas on a game forum that isn't derived from the IP you hate? You might get more/any support there.

[Anvos]

Originally posted by BuffyFan2001:

Word salad clown is what the fans expect. Anything else will be despised.

I can easily see how that whole concept is construed as ableist. Purely from an epistemic perspective, it’s nonsensical because mental illness is a social construct. There are numerous neurological and psychological abnormalities that we place under the umbrella of mental illness that have completely different origins, symptoms and pathologies. Some conditions were previously considered mental illnesses that now aren’t, such as being LGBT. It doesn’t make sense to make that a class shtick, and it also implies that no other vampires can suffer mental illness.

What I think would make more sense if mental illness was something any vampire could suffer. Since they’re magical creatures, some of them develop superpowers related to their mental illness. We don’t need a whole class/high school clique pigeonholed into the role of that weird kid in school.

It’s not like this franchise is worth continuing anymore. We might as well think of new ideas.

It doesn't, it just implies Malkavian has a mental illness that can't be treated, only managed/learned to live with. Other kindred are perfectly capable of mental illness, its just theirs isn't a permanent fixture, if they seek proper treatment and/or work through their issues.

[BuffyFan2001]

Originally posted by Anvos:

it just implies Malkavian has a mental illness that can't be treated, only managed/learned to live with. Other kindred are perfectly capable of mental illness, its just theirs isn't a permanent fixture, if they seek proper treatment and/or work through their issues.

That's how some mental illnesses work, but many are permanent and incurable. Again, mental illness is a social construct under which numerous conditions considered abnormal are grouped. Most people don't understand the field and even scientists consider psychology a soft science.

Originally posted by Clever Name:

What makes Malkavians special is the precise form of madness they all share. Literally the madness network where they all hear voices that pass on unreliable information to them.

Their description states that they suffer from wide assortment of random mental illnesses, not the same one. If they all suffered from the same highly specific condition then that would be something, wouldn't it?

Originally posted by Clever Name:

Why don't you go think of new ideas on a game forum that isn't derived from the IP you hate? You might get more/any support there.

I love Troika's writing and, let's be honest, almost nobody here would give a flying crap about the IP if Troika hadn't put it on the map. This forum complains constantly about how Paradox is ruining this IP, when what they usually mean is that they're angry Paradox isn't emulating Troika rather than the various retcons they've made to the tabletop.

Nobody is getting what they want. Tabletop purists hate Paradox's efforts. Troika fans hate Paradox's efforts. Everybody hates what Paradox is doing. This IP is permanently screwed no matter how you slice it. The constructive thing to do is cut your losses and make up your own stuff, not remain toxicly positive and hope Paradox will somehow do something anybody likes.

I don't hate the IP. I think it alternates between cool, silly, stupid, and batcrap insane, but hate is a strong word. I would say I'm more frustrated that nobody has gotten off their lazy butts and made new vampire IPs as alternatives after all the complaining about Paradox. Urban fantasy is one of the easiest genres to make up because you have the entirety of human myth, folklore and literature to draw from. This IP is hardly high art beyond the ability of anyone else to compete with.

[Harukage]

No clan Malkavian suffer from their connection to the madness network. Mental derrangements is how their minds cope up with it. Naturally each person has different force of will and quirks, that is why they are influenced differently.
Also malkavians prefer to embrace people who are already mentally ill or one foot over there, so that childer have even easier time accommodating. And has lower risk to turn out as a defunct vegetable called "Gnawed".

[BuffyFan2001]

Originally posted by Harukage:

No clan Malkavian suffer from their connection to the madness network. Mental derrangements is how their minds cope up with it. Naturally each person has different force of will and quirks, that is why they are influenced differently.
Also malkavians prefer to embrace people who are already mentally ill or one foot over there, so that childer have even easier time accommodating. And has lower risk to turn out as a defunct vegetable called "Gnawed".

I'm aware. As someone who has actually studied psychology, that still makes absolutely no sense. Whoever wrote that has absolutely no understanding of real mental illness.