Favorite disciplines

[Clever Name]

Per the title, share your favorite disciplines, including the 3 you'd choose for your custom clan or bloodline or caitiff.

While social disciplines can potentially create wide-ranging power structures, I favor the physical disciplines for their ability to help you survive from night to night.

With that in mind, I consider Celerity and Fortitude as absolutely necessary for survival. Which then leaves the third discipline selection. Oblivion would be a solid choice, as it, like Celerity, offers defensive as well as offensive capability. I'd also consider Protean for the same reasons.

Ultimately though, I'd choose Obfuscate. Combined with the disciplines already mentioned, it offers layer upon layer of making your character annoyingly difficult to deal with in combat.

[Harukage]

Tremere defficient blood is their weakness. Their inability to make blood bonds with kindred normally is a major inconvinience.

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by Coffee Break Hero:

But, I mean, the "even grounds" situation isn't even. It's skewed towards the brute. Why would my vampire be within punching distance within yours?

Because I approached you in the perfect silence of the void, and can quite literally be un-breathing down your neck by the time you realize I'm there.

Even if you beat my Obfuscate, you can't beat my Celerity. You can't make eye contact with me when you can't even see my eyes because I'm moving at blur-speed. This is why the Banu Haqim are going to be the stealth/rogue class in Bloodlines 2; stealth + speed is a damn good combo.

Originally posted by Coffee Break Hero:

and even if you're resistant to tempering, there's plenty of others that aren't.

Fair enough, but the whole point of my build is minimizing the number of things it's vulnerable to.

Celerity counters Celerity, plus opens up many avenues of attack against those who lack it. Obfuscate counters anybody without Auspex. Fortitude counters mental attacks and generally serves as insurance against bad luck. The goal is to avoid getting hit; but Fortitude ensures I can afford to get hit.

By the way, since V5 changed various disciplines, your V20 discipline selection of Chimerstry, Dementation, and Auspex would need to be reconfigured to work in V5.

Chimerstry is now Obfuscate + Presence. Dementation is Obfuscate + Dominate. Which means you'd have to pick between playing a Ravnos or a Malkavian. A Caitiff, for instance, couldn't manage to do all of the above, as it'd require knowing too many disciplines.

Don't feel bad, though. Just playing as a straight Malkavian would still eventually give you access to Conceal, which is an Auspex + Obfuscate amalgam. It allows you to make inanimate objects invisible.

Which means you could set lots and lots of invisible traps. So my perfect assassin build, which lacks Auspex, would blunder right into them.

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by Harukage:

You can check Rituals from Blood Sigils on paradox wiki. Kolduns get things like Elemental Grasp, Elemental Shelter and Elemental Attack.
Grasp is minor elemental damage, Attack is a a large scale atack that can be chained with other rituals to turn into a natural disaster. And Shelter is basically Earth Meld with different elements. And yes, you can meld with fire. Good luck touching that.

Did you see the part about activating Koldunic sorcery? How it causes aggravated damage to the user?

I'm also wondering how quickly these rituals can be completed.

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Like, how often are the council of 7 really going to be present in your chronicles to make partial blood bonds to them be an issue? Or how often are you planning to blood bond another vampire, that makes the Tremere unable to do so a problem for you?

Simply put, the Tremere 'weakness' is not an actual weakness. It may as well just be a blurb or fluff material at this point.

It always seemed more of a lore weakness than an in-game mechanical weakness.

Compared to, like, the Gangrel sprouting a duck bill after frenzying.

[Polyedra]

Originally posted by Clever Name:

can quite literally be un-breathing down your neck

... :) Beware the un-breather!

Originally posted by Clever Name:

Do you mean controlling fire via Koldunic Sorcery, or via Thaumaturgy?

I'm not sure. Thaumaturgy had it before. I liked that. Specifically I want a fireball.

Originally posted by Harukage:

You can check Rituals from Blood Sigils on paradox wiki. Kolduns get things like Elemental Grasp, Elemental Shelter and Elemental Attack.
Grasp is minor elemental damage, Attack is a a large scale atack that can be chained with other rituals to turn into a natural disaster. And Shelter is basically Earth Meld with different elements. And yes, you can meld with fire. Good luck touching that.

Hmm, thank you. Not exactly what I'm after. I need something with proper oomph, like a fireball. Avtually that's the only one. It's critical to me that I possess that, otherwise I would not use it. Fireball and I would like some kind of firewall to go with.. inferno style maybe.. like it'd be creating a large fire somewhere.. but not omega large ritual style fire.
Key's the fireball. If I had that I'd run it.

[Polyedra]

Originally posted by Clever Name:

Did you see the part about activating Koldunic sorcery? How it causes aggravated damage to the user?

Oof. I did not see that and I disapprove also.
It's acceptable that I'm hurt by fire, understandable, but I'm thinking that I summon the fireball in front of me and hurl it at some snake Banu Haqim, for example, who's skulking in the shadows. And uhh.. that kind of stuff. Or like at a bunch of guys.. and they get exploded and burn all over the place in full terror before final death puts them to rest if not immediately incinerated.
Then I retreat to my study for contemplation.
I don't mind various spells though but the fireball is truly essential.
That kind of stuff I was thinking.
Not like.. go up to this one guy and try touch him but also burn myself.. That's not my thing.

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by Polyedra:

Hmm, thank you. Not exactly what I'm after. I need something with proper oomph, like a fireball. Avtually that's the only one. It's critical to me that I possess that, otherwise I would not use it. Fireball and I would like some kind of firewall to go with.. inferno style maybe.. like it'd be creating a large fire somewhere.. but not omega large ritual style fire.
Key's the fireball. If I had that I'd run it.

Koldunic Sorcery from V20 offered a wall of magma and a mini-volcano.

Thaumaturgy's Lure of Flames is comparatively boring, offering only larger flames summoned per dot increased, with no special abilities.

It looks to me like V5's fire stuff is going to be gimped by the fact that they're all rituals, while V20's were activated like normal disciplines.

[Polyedra]

I see. Well, that's the end of my sorcerous career then.

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by Polyedra:

I see. Well, that's the end of my sorcerous career then.

There is some hope, in that wiki descriptions sometimes leave out critical details, compared to getting the info straight from a book.

So it's possible there are ways around the obvious limitations. But unlikely.

The general trend in V5 is to restrict powergaming, while V20 allowed you to go wild.

[Polyedra]

I understand that fire is restricted, because it breaks everything. It's just that.. that's awesome.
Could and should be some major drawback. Like you gotta make this deal with a guy: Satan, and he's not much fun other than providing you with the majesty of flames directly imported from his kingdom called Hell.
Or the other guy: God, who also can supplement you with even more supreme fire; it's just that you gotta be all holy, in the literal sense, which is super difficult for anyone to achieve.
The first guy just requires your soul and any shred of decency you ever had, while the other guy is all the way around and requires you to never ever be even in the slightest the destructive maniac everyone wants to be.
I read some about demons which was cool. Supposedly they have hellfire and they're really nasty to deal with once manifested. Not sure what's going on with that currently.
Anyway, I guess I just have to accept there'll be no way to possess the power of fire in the name of balance. That's unfortunate but it was never my primary choice anyway. A choice I still can't have cause I'll have to get stuff like Presence to invoke respect before I kill someone. Respect is very important but it still leaves me disappointed and wondering why.

[Polyedra]

Oh, I can't say that. I see. I think that there's a lot of hypocrisy with all the censorship. How come we all watch movies all day where the protagonists and everyone else keep blabbering about all sorts of stuff but here we can barely write dix? How is that consistent?
Disclaimer: I'm not discussing Steam moderation. I am expressing discontent over the general condition of automatic moderation in every modern forum. As it's against the rules to discuss moderation. ... I mean, no one will enforce that but still.
Anyway, so the guy's the devil but there's a different word for him. I'm sure what I meant didn't escape anyone though.

[Harukage]

Well, there were other rirtuals from Blood Sigils, that allow you to interact with places of power and leylines in various ways. As well as some interesting things from Sabbat book that allowed you to absorb viscera and blood from surroundings.
I guess you can build some interesting Tzimisce Koldun utilizing all of those. Though i guess all of those been rituals is not for everyone.

[Harukage]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Which I would love to see how the Second Inquisition responds to seeing that kind of ♥♥♥♥, when trying to raid a Tzimisce haven.

And they would have to fight an army of war ghouls, creatures of the land, all of its elements and the land itself. Nah, i pass. Never go to war on Tzimisce territory.

[Coffee Break Hero]

Originally posted by Clever Name:

Originally posted by Coffee Break Hero:

But, I mean, the "even grounds" situation isn't even. It's skewed towards the brute. Why would my vampire be within punching distance within yours?

Because I approached you in the perfect silence of the void, and can quite literally be un-breathing down your neck by the time you realize I'm there.

Even if you beat my Obfuscate, you can't beat my Celerity. You can't make eye contact with me when you can't even see my eyes because I'm moving at blur-speed. This is why the Banu Haqim are going to be the stealth/rogue class in Bloodlines 2; stealth + speed is a damn good combo.

Originally posted by Coffee Break Hero:

and even if you're resistant to tempering, there's plenty of others that aren't.

Fair enough, but the whole point of my build is minimizing the number of things it's vulnerable to.

Celerity counters Celerity, plus opens up many avenues of attack against those who lack it. Obfuscate counters anybody without Auspex. Fortitude counters mental attacks and generally serves as insurance against bad luck. The goal is to avoid getting hit; but Fortitude ensures I can afford to get hit.

By the way, since V5 changed various disciplines, your V20 discipline selection of Chimerstry, Dementation, and Auspex would need to be reconfigured to work in V5.

Chimerstry is now Obfuscate + Presence. Dementation is Obfuscate + Dominate. Which means you'd have to pick between playing a Ravnos or a Malkavian. A Caitiff, for instance, couldn't manage to do all of the above, as it'd require knowing too many disciplines.

Don't feel bad, though. Just playing as a straight Malkavian would still eventually give you access to Conceal, which is an Auspex + Obfuscate amalgam. It allows you to make inanimate objects invisible.

Which means you could set lots and lots of invisible traps. So my perfect assassin build, which lacks Auspex, would blunder right into them.

But how do you know where to my neck is?
Also, 10 year old imagination fight aside, I already conceded I didn't try to make an optimal vampire.
My vampire can't sit and have a neutral conversation with you because that would be putting them at mortal danger. If I don't plan for something I'm ♥♥♥♥♥♥, and my planning often cost a lot of blood.
I think I would only win VS you if I decide you're my enemy before you know I exist... and I'll be able to solve problems more complicated problems you simply wouldn't be able to approach.

"Fair enough, but the whole point of my build is minimizing the number of things it's vulnerable to."

I didn't think of it that way, but perhaps mine is to maximize the number of things that are vulnerable to me.

PS: I don't like what V5 did there. It makes things less unique in an effort to gamify them too much. (subjective, obviously)

PPS: I rarely find joy in building traps. I switch up classes all the time playing games and cRPGs but I stray away from the trapping archetypes. It's only fun when there's a boss that's worth the effort, that's barely beatable otherwise. Gamifying traps in a fun way is hard.

[Coffee Break Hero]

Wait who and how can control fire in VtM? Sounds OP.
gtg to real life nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
♥♥♥♥ you sun.