Favorite disciplines

[Clever Name]

Per the title, share your favorite disciplines, including the 3 you'd choose for your custom clan or bloodline or caitiff.

While social disciplines can potentially create wide-ranging power structures, I favor the physical disciplines for their ability to help you survive from night to night.

With that in mind, I consider Celerity and Fortitude as absolutely necessary for survival. Which then leaves the third discipline selection. Oblivion would be a solid choice, as it, like Celerity, offers defensive as well as offensive capability. I'd also consider Protean for the same reasons.

Ultimately though, I'd choose Obfuscate. Combined with the disciplines already mentioned, it offers layer upon layer of making your character annoyingly difficult to deal with in combat.

[Polyedra]

GrandMajora lähetti viestin:

Harukage lähetti viestin:

Yeah, Tzimisce are not required to be scary. Some just look like humans, maybe with some minor alterations, some change their form once in a while, while some have forms that are extremely beautifull and mesmerizing, like Sasha Vykos.

Their write up says they can either be extremely terrifying, or unnaturally beautiful.

I doubt every Tzimisce on the path of metamorphosis believes that turning yourself into a lovecraftian abomination, or a biblically accurate demon is the best way to achieve perfection.

Beautiful..? No, I never thought any of those flesh grafters valued such things. Not that I thought they lacked capacity as shifting flesh is what they do best, I just thought none of them had any interest. I always saw them similar to Giger's creations with smooth grey skin bathing in blood, intestines and broken bones for amusement and pleasure with perverted delight.
I find myself a bit judgemental, but I still think they're true monsters.

[Clever Name]

Harukage lähetti viestin:

Auspex is a must for every vamp if you ask me.

In a regular game setting, I'd usually want Auspex. But in scenario where I expect to get attacked a lot, or am just being generally paranoid, I'd sacrifice it in favor of plain survivability.

The one thing that really gives me pause about selecting Obfuscate, is that it can be countered by Auspex. Even more irritating is that the rolls to contest observation are tied to Wits + Obfuscate. I don't like being forced to make Wits my +4 attribute; wouldn't it make more sense to use Stealth + Obfuscate for the roll? Or even Resolve or Composure?

I just don't see where Wits comes into the equation. It's not like every time a vampire with Auspex looks at you, you're aware that they're using Auspex; so you don't suddenly jump behind something in anticipation of being spotted. When you're using Obfuscate, you're assuming nobody can see you until you have a good reason to believe otherwise.

As for evading electronic detection, I think Ghost in the Machine + Obfuscate would keep you safe from even advanced equipment used by SI hunters. Regular Obfuscate would be largely worthless against them.

[Clever Name]

GrandMajora lähetti viestin:

Clever Name lähetti viestin:

I think Celerity, Fortitude, Protean actually makes the best 'unkillable' combination.

In previous editions of the game, Fortitude could be used to soak aggravated damage. Which at a high enough level of mastery, could actually let the user tank damage from sunlight.

Fortitude has two abilities that allow brief exposure to sunlight. If you use Toughness followed by Defy Bane, the latter converts aggravated damage equal to your Fortitude level, to superficial damage.

Toughness reduces the amount of superficial damage you take, by your Fortitude level.

So at level 5 Fortitude, and with some lucky rouse checks, you could endure sun for maybe a couple of scenes (which are variable in length, but can be classified loosely as 'a fairly long time'). Definitely not for days at a time, though, or even hours probably.

Still, considering it's all available at less than 5 dots, it's fairly useful.

[Clever Name]

Polyedra lähetti viestin:

Beautiful..? No, I never thought any of those flesh grafters valued such things. Not that I thought they lacked capacity as shifting flesh is what they do best, I just thought none of them had any interest.

You're making the mistake of assuming all Tzimisce act like inhuman and ancient elders.

There's no reason a relatively young Tzimisce wouldn't retain human views on beauty. As they get older, they'd undoubtedly become bored by classical beauty; but that would likely take hundreds of years.

Humans, after all, would still prefer to look decent even after 100 years of life. If genetic engineering someday allows it, I'm sure most people would prefer to look (and feel like) ~30 at 150.

[Polyedra]

Clever Name lähetti viestin:

Polyedra lähetti viestin:

It has to be Celerity, Potence and Fortitude. That's perfection.

I think Celerity, Fortitude, Protean actually makes the best 'unkillable' combination.

Yea, I think so too. I just don't like shifting so I can't use it. I could possibly play a werewolf but only as an experiment. Potence is good for smashing but Protean does some of that too and many other useful things.
Celerity must be better than Potence but.. I'd get Potence, Fortitude and Protean then to ultimately crush my opposition. Only thing though, how would I ever catch someone that used Celerity? Wouldn't that be impossible? I could wear them out but seems a painful process and if they did tire they'd just run away.

You made an impressive list of advantages that would be hard to beat. For ultimate power I'd be forced to select Protean as a fourth discipline, but I'd like to get Auspex to prevent deception. Which I suppose would be the lesser choice since you mention Protean deals with that partially as well as many other tangible threats.

Not sure how you acquire a fourth. I think Majora mentioned diablerie, which is provocative and risky. Hope they include that kind of possibility, it would be awesome to top it all off like that.

[Clever Name]

GrandMajora lähetti viestin:

Only the introductory levels of Auspex focus on enhancing your mundane senses, while it's more advanced powers grant you access to more supernatural perception.

No, Sense the Unseen in V5 is available at level 1. No rouse check, no activation cost of any kind.

You're a walking Obfuscate detector at one dot.

[Clever Name]

Polyedra lähetti viestin:

Clever Name lähetti viestin:

I think Celerity, Fortitude, Protean actually makes the best 'unkillable' combination.

Yea, I think so too. I just don't like shifting so I can't use it. I could possibly play a werewolf but only as an experiment. Potence is good for smashing but Protean does some of that too and many other useful things.
Celerity must be better than Potence but.. I'd get Potence, Fortitude and Protean then to ultimately crush my opposition. Only thing though, how would I ever catch someone that used Celerity? Wouldn't that be impossible? I could wear them out but seems a painful process and if they did tire they'd just run away.

You made an impressive list of advantages that would be hard to beat. For ultimate power I'd be forced to select Protean as a fourth discipline, but I'd like to get Auspex to prevent deception. Which I suppose would be the lesser choice since you mention Protean deals with that partially as well as many other tangible threats.

Not sure how you acquire a fourth. I think Majora mentioned diablerie, which is provocative and risky. Hope they include that kind of possibility, it would be awesome to top it all off like that.

The Soaring Leap from Potence could theoretically be used to counteract some aspects of Celerity.

Remember that in V5, Celerity isn't just like you're the Flash, running at full warp speed all the time. Your passives don't grant you enhanced speed; just enhanced agility. To activate the teleport and wall-running features of Celerity, you've got to do rouse checks, which are essentially V5's version of V20's blood points that limit how often you can use disciplines. Sensible use of Leap could possibly intercept a fleeing Celerity user, especially if terrain works in the pursuer's favor at all.

As for learning an out-of-clan discipline, that doesn't require diablerie. You only need to drink from a user of whatever discipline you want. Which means you'd owe them a favor or three, I'm sure.

[Harukage]

Learning new disciplines was was always the part of VtM and its derivations. Imagine if it required diablerie every time.

[Clever Name]

GrandMajora lähetti viestin:

It's a pale imitation of its former glory. Soak damage, is damage that you just straight up ignore, and older editions of Fortitude could soak aggravated damage; something which vampires have very little protection against.

Yeah, I'm saying that you can convert fire and sunlight into superficial damage, and then soak that. In V5. In V20, you just didn't bother with the conversion. Ultimately both versions still offer the same 5 dots in Fortitude = 5 aggravated damage protection.

Fortitude's fifth dot ability, Flesh of Marble or whatever, allows you to outright ignore fire damage. Not sunlight.

V5's Fortitude works almost as well as V20's, the only difference being that you've got to rouse check to get the best protection.

[Anvos]

Despise the concept of Caitiff over just having a blood line. Thus my favored additions are essentially Tremere Bloodlines.

Considering I generally lean spellsword/battlemage in most RPGs, I'd say either a Tremere/Ventrue Bloodline with Fortitude, Blood Sorcery, Dominate, Not to mention there is interesting story line you could work with, from a sort of Ventrue-Tremere cooperation.

Basically

Blood Sorcery is an interesting grab bag and opens up the rituals.

Dominate is one of the best cover your ass disciplines, between Cloud Memory and Forgetful mind.

Fortitude well if you already have Blood Sorcery and Dominate, it makes the most sense for the physical discipline.

----------------------

Beyond that blood lines I'd like to see added

"Dark Mage" Tremere Bloodline : Blood Sorcery, Oblivion, Auspex

"Cheetah" Gangrel : Celerity, Protean, Animalism

"Old Clan" Tzimitzsce : Animalism, Dominate, Auspex

"Loner" Ravanos : Fortitude, Obfuscate, Presence

[Polyedra]

I see, thank you; informative.
It sure would be something if it is possible to acquire a fourth in BL2.
Glossed over the list of Auspex abilities and it's pretty good stuff. The wiki didn't have V5 advanced abilities, only basic, but there were many others.
Seems very useful to counter Obfuscate easily. Perhaps a bit unfair also.
I'm not sure it would be the final one I'd pick but it's very tempting with acute awareness.
This is something I would dive into examining the details and considering the gameplay for a long time if they elaborated on it. *Really* want that opportunity.

There was a mod I played for BL1 that improved Auspex. Can't remember exactly what it did but I used Auspex a lot, I remember that. It wasn't perfect or needed but it was fun.
That's a big reason I want mod capacity, because there's wizards out there who does so much good work when given the chance. Maps and story too.

They even made a multiplayer mod for BL1. Never got to try it but it worked..
First version you couldn't jump in though because that crashed the game as when it tried to establish where the player would land it became apparent to the game engine that there were more than a single entity in the world as there were multiple possible locations which it was never made to deal with. But they fixed that somehow, wizardry.
These games should have multi support, just a friend or two would be enough. Cyberpunk was going to add it but I don't think they have yet. Guess it's not so easy, with balance and AI, them having to guarantee the experience. But I really think it's a big missing feature as having a friend with makes the game more enjoyable many times.

Looking at all these cool disciplines, considering the potential..
They won't make it. No way they'll make it. And they won't allow mods either. Meaning we will never see this potential realised. All anyone of us will ever get to do is dream about it or play it tabletop. That's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ bastard shame is what it is.

[Clever Name]

Polyedra lähetti viestin:

Looking at all these cool disciplines, considering the potential..
They won't make it. No way they'll make it. And they won't allow mods either. Meaning we will never see this potential realised. All anyone of us will ever get to do is dream about it or play it tabletop. That's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ bastard shame is what it is.

This is why I said a game like Baldur's Gate 3 would be a better vehicle for VtM than Bloodlines. Sure, you lose that 'visceral' feeling from using disciplines in first person combat, but you gain a lot more tactical interactions between disciplines.

Also, the party system completely lends itself to VtM's coteries.

[Clever Name]

Just to finish up discussing V5's Fortitude versus V20's.

Something V5 does that I find quite nice, is that it adds your Fort. rating to your health track. So, at 5 dots you've got 5 free HP that you wouldn't have otherwise.

Couple this with Prowess from Pain, which gives you a physical attribute buff for each HP you're missing, AND eliminates dice penalties from catastrophic injury.

Meaning you could be down 5 HP--which would still only be your extra HP from Fortitude--take no penalties from that damage, and add 5 points to an attribute of your choosing.

So, +5 to Strength, Dex, or Stamina.

Those passive gains actually make V5's Fortitude much more interesting than V20's.

[Clever Name]

GrandMajora lähetti viestin:

Clever Name lähetti viestin:

The Soaring Leap from Potence could theoretically be used to counteract some aspects of Celerity.

I have been told that at their maximum level, both Soaring Leap and Blink allow you to travel up to 50 meters to your destination.

So while it's possible for them both to travel the same length of distance, one of them needs time to travel between Point A and Point B, while the other just instantly pops over.

Recall that Blink doesn't allow you to go vertical. You've also got to roll a difficulty test depending on whether you move through rough terrain or not.

Meaning with a lot of junk between A and B, Soaring Leap is going to reach B more reliably than Blink.

[Anvos]

Clever Name lähetti viestin:

Recall that Blink doesn't allow you to go vertical. You've also got to roll a difficulty test depending on whether you move through rough terrain or not.

Meaning with a lot of junk between A and B, Soaring Leap is going to reach B more reliably than Blink.

To be fair its equally as reasonable to demand soaring leap make a roll to determine if they can actually land where they want to, since the ability to jump isn't the same as the ability to accurately target and land.