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This is completely irrelevant to the post and the point. You don't throw away 5 years of work after a release announcement because the game needed more work.
Whether or not HSL was the team to get the game across the line, they made a game the community wanted. Most of the community does not like the direction this has gone and over and over again I see people saying they wanted the HSL version polished up.
HSL doesn't have to be the one to finish the product, as mentioned in my original post. There is a way to fix this and come out with two products most people will enjoy instead of one product that failed.
We barely knew WHAT was the HSL version of the game, other than the general premise and what players were shown during the alpha. It very much could have been some awful "Zach Schneider Cut" of video games. It wasn't giving the community much promise of a faithful squeal to begin with. Would it be nice to see the full script of the HSL's version, yeah easily.
I've stated on previous discussions that Paradox really can't afford trashing all the previous work to start from scratch. Sitting in on investor's calls shows a very bleak future. Why they did that? IDK, management fumbling isn't new to this studio particularity. They're not Blizzard (regarding trashing 2+ years of OW2 PvE content, and so on), they don't have that kind of money.
I'm looking at the present reaction to the change and the current sentiment of the community that I see everywhere, not the past. I remember the discourse as well, and I remember most people still being excited for the project and the details revealed. The present backlash is obvious to anyone who looks. Bloodlines is never going to be a mainstream hit, it is a cult classic as most vampire stories. We're long past the 90s and 2000s where everyone was jumping on goth culture and vamps were everywhere. There is a market but the product has to meet that market instead of trying to find a new one.
That isn't true, we had a much clearer idea of what the HSL version of the game was. There was a lot more detail and as for it not giving promise of a faithful sequel, it was the closest thing we've had and my interpretation was that it was VERY close to a faithful sequel. It felt like Bloodlines, this does not.
I completely agree, it's insane they trashed so much work instead of polishing what was there and then pushing this title out as it's own thing. As it stands, if community sentiment and the games reception doesn't improve we're going to have one huge failed money pit that will end hopes for a Bloodlines franchise instead of two products that both have potential to be something successful.
The HSL version is Bloodlines 2, it was announced and marketed for release. The TCR version is and should be a separate title, like VTM: Seattle. It is never going to be accepted as the sequel over the HSL version but it certainly has a place as a VTM title.
Rebranding and releasing both would greatly improve the odds of improved community reception and potential for positive financial return. Scrapping potentially millions of dollars of work makes zero sense.
I'm not sure how advocating for both games being viable products that deserve recognition instead of both being dead in the water is Eden bias, but ok.
Sure, there was potential there, but it was about as much potential as a neglected 1920 coal mine.
Thinking something most people think is not lost Eden syndrome. The game did have potential, it was given 5 years of development. It was definitely desired given people keep asking for it.
It sounds more like you're just being negative. What exactly makes you think so poorly of what we saw of the HSL version of Bloodlines 2?
The combat for sure needed rework, but the rest of the game looked like what everyone was expecting. People complained about the thin blood player character without acknowledging you weren't stuck as a thin blood.
HSL version, whilst not at the stage of being releasable, was a pretty good indication of what we were going to receive had it been released. The dialogue options, the language used, the combat mechanics, these are all things that might have/could have changed along the path without it being a change to the overall esthetics and tone of the game (Things like the use of Ray Tracing etc). It's not like they showed us clips of actual dialogue whilst showing us the look of the characters, the front view looking into the camera in first person, the facial movements/expressions or the atmosphere and tone with a view of either completely changing everything we were shown or that it had been changed yet showing us how it looked pre change.
We knew (Broadly speaking) what we were getting.
This iteration (As described in the Narrative and RPG stream) is sounding like it's made with a view of the lore of VTM but without taking into account anything from the original bloodlines game.
Examples such as...
Bloodlines had Malkavian as being the only clan to hear voices.
Bloodlines 2 is going to have all clans hear voices...why?
Bloodlines had a more immersive first person view during dialogue.
Bloodlines 2 is side camera with us watching the character talk to our character instead of directly at us.
I've mentioned a load more in my main post.
It's not to say this game isn't going to be any good...but it's far from a sequal as every other VTM game out to date. That means either the studio didn't look at the source material of the original game/ invest time into what made the first game great. Or they did and chose to ignore it/didn't have the capacity or capability of honouring the original game.
If I asked everyone what (for them) made bloodlines such a great game and so replayable, you won't find much if any of it in what we've seen so far from this studios version.
Then look at HSL version and whilst it was unfinished, how much of what made bloodlines great could you see in their version.
I would much rather that what HSL were working on would have been given to a competent studio and finished than what TCR is working on.
Neither is gonna bear fruit, so this discussion is moot.
We're not going to get the bloodlines 2 we're wishing for no matter how we call the tuna fish
I agree with pretty much everything here and thanks for the thoughtful comment.
I absolutely think this will be a decent "Vampire" game, but I don't think it will be even a remotely good "Bloodlines" game. I would love to see this as a $30 VTM: Seattle/Elders title and would happily pay $60 for the game I was sold 3.5 years ago.
Hey, thanks for listening to me and thinking about it a moment anyway. I appreciate you.
I would love to see both titles get released. I know that is incredibly unlikely to happen short of the HSL build getting leaked. This was more to start a conversation about what is happening and what _could_ be done, but I agree that executives very rarely change their mind once they've decided their way is best. Just the idea seems like a smarter move than yet another "We're sticking to our guns" moment when they should have done that from the start.