TZIMISCE, SALUBRI AND RAVNOS ARE BACK!!

[Incarna]

https://www.dicebreaker.com/games/vampire-the-masquerade-v5/news/vtm-companion-free-supplement

[Incarna]

Originally posted by Kaos:

To free you of flesh, reunite you with day

That doesn't sound like a good idea

[Indvstrial Black]

Too true. The point was, the moon guards her colors well, unlike the day. And will not reveal her hand. Yuck, spoiling a riddle is like spoiling a joke.

[Indvstrial Black]

https://youtu.be/SuoYVyu7cGY

[LotR[Henchman]]

It's here for everyone who has missed it.

Very short summary towards the clans (not copying rules 1:1)

Ravnos changed from having Animalism, Fortitude and Chemistry to Animalism, Obfuscate and Presence. - Bane sleeping in the same place (roughly 1mile radius define a place) within 7 days, will induce a Bane severity roll in which criticals will apply aggrevated damage. Compulsion - need to take the most daring/dangerous solution to the next presented problem or keep the penalty.

Salubri changed from having Auspex, Fortitude, Obeah to Auspex, Dominate, Fortitude.
Bane: Using disciplines causes the 3rd eye to bleed and induces a hunger frenzy check on vamps with 4+ hunger. Also their vitae is tasty to other vampires - x + bane severity check on feeding on their vitae as hunger frenzy test. Compulsion - Empathy - Need to help someone in the scene with their personal problem or suffer the die penatly; lasts until some way made to solve that problem.
No Archetypes - they're special that way, because only few exist.

Tzimisce changed from having Viscitude, Animalism, Auspex to Animalism, Dominate, Protean.
Oh and they seemingly want to have them also be more in existance with Anarchs and Camarilla. Bane - need to sleep sorrounded by something they percieve as theirs - be it people, counter cultures, buildings, home earths - whatever. Or take willpower damage. Compulsion: Need to act to earn ownership of something or someone or keep penalty.

Sooo.... No more specific disciplines, all amalgams.
Some no longer being 5 disciplines, but rather 2.

Coterie merits - buy merits the whole group can use.
Interestingly all bound towards the buyer being of a certain clan. Even one for Hecata - which book funnily isn't officially released to all yet. :)

--
So i'm still not a fan of the Amalgam stuff..

[Lλmbdλ]

Ravnos with only Animalism in common with others editions, who is not the best discipline to represent the clan
Salubri describes, Salubri with Dominate, just Salubri
Tzimisce are the best of the worst here, Dominate could represent the clan well, but ♥♥♥♥, Protean is not Vicissitude

Now the amalgams :
Auspex + Fortitude => own by the Capadocians (Hecata)
Presence + Obfuscate => own by the "Ministry"
So I guess both of theses clans are two dumb to mastery "Chemistry" and "Obeah" x')

They want less disciplines, possible to be simpler and welcoming to new players but this is so complicated to emulate exotics disciplines with theses restrictions -_-

[LotR[Henchman]]

Originally posted by Laurone:

Ravnos with only Animalism in common with others editions, who is not the best discipline to represent the clan
Salubri describes, Salubri with Dominate, just Salubri
Tzimisce are the best of the worst here, Dominate could represent the clan well, but ♥♥♥♥, Protean is not Vicissitude

Now the amalgams :
Auspex + Fortitude => own by the Capadocians (Hecata)
Presence + Obfuscate => own by the "Ministry"
So I guess both of theses clans are two dumb to mastery "Chemistry" and "Obeah" x')

They want less disciplines, possible to be simpler and welcoming to new players but this is so complicated to emulate exotics disciplines with theses restrictions -_-

Yeah just realizing something.

The Protean - Trimisce Amalgams:
Lvl 1 - nothing.
Lvl 2 - Vicissitude (needs Dominate 2)
Lvl 3 - Fleshcrafting (needs Dominate 2)
Lvl 4 - Horrid Form (needs Dominate 2)
Lvl 5 - One with the Land (needs Animalism 2 and Earth Meld).

Now Earth Meld is itself a level 3 Protean power. So how to slot that within Protean to allow getting Lvl 5 ?
So again, either their whole slotting idea is simply weak and was never thought through (what i think is the problem), or their writing:
"Amalgam Powers
Certain rare powers require
proficiency in more than one
Discipline. Characters must also
possess the listed number of dots
in the other Discipline to take
these powers. For the purpose of
type and other classification these
powers count as belonging to both
Disciplines."
is simply to vague in explaining how slots work with them (also not a good option). With seemingly no official clarification coming, while at least in the Onyx Path Publishing forums there are many discussions.

And it follows that the described fluff of Tzimisce now being shapeshifting like Gangrels, but beyond that even flesh shifting, isn't well represented, when it's either or. Not that it was a good idea imo from the beginning.

[Lλmbdλ]

Originally posted by LotRHenchman:

Originally posted by Laurone:

Ravnos with only Animalism in common with others editions, who is not the best discipline to represent the clan
Salubri describes, Salubri with Dominate, just Salubri
Tzimisce are the best of the worst here, Dominate could represent the clan well, but ♥♥♥♥, Protean is not Vicissitude

Now the amalgams :
Auspex + Fortitude => own by the Capadocians (Hecata)
Presence + Obfuscate => own by the "Ministry"
So I guess both of theses clans are two dumb to mastery "Chemistry" and "Obeah" x')

They want less disciplines, possible to be simpler and welcoming to new players but this is so complicated to emulate exotics disciplines with theses restrictions -_-

Yeah just realizing something.

The Protean - Trimisce Amalgams:
Lvl 1 - nothing.
Lvl 2 - Vicissitude (needs Dominate 2)
Lvl 3 - Fleshcrafting (needs Dominate 2)
Lvl 4 - Horrid Form (needs Dominate 2)
Lvl 5 - One with the Land (needs Animalism 2 and Earth Meld).

Now Earth Meld is itself a level 3 Protean power. So how to slot that within Protean to allow getting Lvl 5 ?
So again, either their whole slotting idea is simply weak and was never thought through (what i think is the problem), or their writing:
"Amalgam Powers
Certain rare powers require
proficiency in more than one
Discipline. Characters must also
possess the listed number of dots
in the other Discipline to take
these powers. For the purpose of
type and other classification these
powers count as belonging to both
Disciplines."
is simply to vague in explaining how slots work with them (also not a good option). With seemingly no official clarification coming, while at least in the Onyx Path Publishing forums there are many discussions.

And it follows that the described fluff of Tzimisce now being shapeshifting like Gangrels, but beyond that even flesh shifting, isn't well represented, when it's either or. Not that it was a good idea imo from the beginning.

When you buy a power, it is consider of both but the dot is normaly of the higher level (you buy in what disciplines you take it, and this is mostly the higher level of the two)
One with the Land is little more than just Earth Meld but you are right, they should be transform into a pool of blood like the previous edition powers

[LotR[Henchman]]

Originally posted by Laurone:

When you buy a power, it is consider of both but the dot is normaly of the higher level (you buy in what disciplines you take it, and this is mostly the higher level of the two)
One with the Land is little more than just Earth Meld but you are right, they should be transform into a pool of blood like the previous edition powers

Never thought of that :duh: that would make total sense.
Again amalgams just feel wierd.

[Incarna]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

I really hope Vicissitude doesn't become an amalgam power. I can see a logical reason for why it might become so, but the lore surrounding its origins has typically been that it was granted to them by an earth demon, or it may be the work of some kind of infectious parasite.

Making the art of flesh crafting part of a much less alien discipline like Protean kind of makes the Old Clan's animosity towards it seem ridiculous.

It is an amalgam (Protean + Dominate), they released the ebook last week. Check LotR[Henchman] comment.


https://www.worldofdarkness.com/news/v5-companion-is-available-to-download-now

What bothers me is that it is not permanent anymore.

[Incarna]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Tamaya:

What bothers me is that it is not permanent anymore.

5th edition has made it clear at every opportunity they are stripping out the option of playing any kind of vampire who doesn't struggle to maintain the last vestiges of what remains of their humanity.

I skimmed through the corebook once, IIRC you can create your own morals table. They are also going to release a book with cults and religions, that sounds like paths to me https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Cults_of_the_Blood_Gods

[LotR[Henchman]]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Tamaya:

I skimmed through the corebook once, IIRC you can create your own morals table. They are also going to release a book with cults and religions, that sounds like paths to me https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Cults_of_the_Blood_Gods

Those would be Convictions, and they're just very specific instances that your character can use to justify violating what are otherwise considered Tenets of Humanity. As for the religions, Outstar made it sound like they exist to provide the vampires with the spiritual strength to keep going through the night, instead of succumbing to suicidal depression.


But that's not enough to satisfy me. I don't give a crap about Humanity at all. I'm looking for a play style where my character revels in being a vampire. But every time I investigate the changes that have been added to 5th edition, it becomes more and more clear that the developers of the game are removing that kind of character as a possible option.

Even the Nosferatu got a 'makeover' so they're able to go out in public again.

The entire reason I became a fan of World of Darkness in the first place was specifically because it offered me the chance to play the monster, instead of the hero. If the game is going to take out the core feature that drew me to it in the first place, then you can hopefully see why I'd lose interest in it.

I was refraining from buying any V5 content until they released more information about the Sabbat book. Tzimisce were my last bastion of hope for continuing to play a monstrous vampire. But this news has been the final straw, I'll be sticking with V20 for any World of Darkness content I involve myself with in the future.

Well they'll be doing a Sabbat book sometime in the future, which might offer something you want. But again, i'm a bit baffled by their amalgam move, as i don't get what their goal is.
It's not less complex do amalgams than it is to group specific powers under a specific discipline, nor did it seem to be that much more of a hassle to come up with 5+ abilities per old discipline - so i see no big upside to the whole idea.

[LotR[Henchman]]

Yeah.. i don't see how they'd go ahead, either with beastial or with more civilized monsters. I mean when i personally think of V5 i always remember how often they more or less went "You can play monsters, but please keep everyone comfortable, so better don't play a monster.".

[[Countess]Vol†z]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

One of the reasons outside of Vampires that brought me to this game's universe was the bleak darkness of the universe it self. I came from the Warhammer 40k fan camp and it's very dark and disturbing. I wouldn't want to live in that universe and makes me glad I live in a better world in comparison. Hive worlds alone the worst you could or could not imagine happens to humans that live in hive cities. Slaanesh is thing and what that chaos god and it's followers do to anything is violating in every dimension. The Drukhari, you would pray to the Emperor that your planet rather be invaded by blood thirsty Orks that would beat your body into a fine gooey red paste, than be laid pillaged by the sadistic and twisted Drukhari. Morally depraved monsters can still be highly intelligent and cognitively functioning.

[Incarna]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

I have absolutely zero interest in playing a vampire who cries over the fact they aren't human anymore, and longs to return to a normal life. Those kinds of ♥♥♥♥♥♥ emo vampires belong in Twilght, or Vampire Diaries.

The main plot of VtM is the inner struggle to remain human while living in a world that forces you to act like a monster and having to please the one that lives within you so he stays inside though.

"A monster I am, lest a monster I become"

[D-503]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

But then 5th edition decided to kick them all out of the country, while commenting that they joined up with various terrorist groups throughout the world. A very, very hamfisted way of telling the players they don't want you playing one, ever again.

Wait... seriously? The Sabbat don't control any territory in the US?

I'm not a fan of the Sabbat, but I'm always in favor of allowing players as much freedom as possible. Inclusive of that is playing Sabbat.

If Paths of Enlightenment are also scrapped, that leaves players with virtually no philosophical depth to their character's humanity or lack of.

The whole moral system of V5 seems amorphous and bland.