No Blood Shield for Tremere

[Amadeo]

So, unfortunately, the newly revealed Tremere clan is not going to get access to Blood Shield, and Auspex appears to be as lame as ever.

Dear developers, having two active powers per discipline is a step in the wrong direction, but if you are hell-bent on implementing this model, at least integrate all "spells" from the first game in some creative fashion. That said, having Blood Boil trigger the Blood Salvo effect isn't particularly creative because it is counter-intuitive. Why would the blood of each victim of Blood Boil stream back to the caster? It isn't their blood that he is enchanting.

It would be much better if the PC standing within the AoE of Blood Boil gained the Blood Shield status effect (he would be covered with blood anyway) while Blood Salvo was integrated with advanced levels of Purge. Alternatively, since your blood returns after Skewer spikes dissolve, you could steal discharged blood by casting Skewer on the target affected by Purge.

Auspex could and should be further improved by, for instance, allowing you to possess humans or affect environment (poltergeist style) at advanced levels of Astral Projection. In their current form both disciplines appear uninspired.

[Aldaris]

Auspex does more than in did in Bloodlines. Not sure how that's as lame.

[Amadeo]

Originally posted by Aldaris:

Auspex does more than in did in Bloodlines. Not sure how that's as lame.

Auspex was used to reveal auras and provide a temporary stat increase, particularly to enhance firearms and defense. It was also useful for hacking. Now it's going to reveal auras as well as allow you to scout areas ahead and stun people. That's just as lame in my opinion.

[Amadeo]

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

Reason? Only plausible thing that comes to mind - this was done to reduce number of active buttons in order to accomodate console gamepads!

Yes, they seem to be determined to have two active powers per discipline, which is quite limiting. The original game had seven disciplines with only one active power (Obfuscate, Protean, Fortitude, Celerity, Auspex, Presence, and Potence), but it also included four disciplines that incorporated five active powers, one for every new level (Dominate, Thaumaturgy, Dementation, and Animalism). Therefore, on average, every discipline had approximately 2.5 powers associated with it. This certainly looks like a step in the wrong direction.

[Aldaris]

Originally posted by Amadeo:

Originally posted by Aldaris:

Auspex does more than in did in Bloodlines. Not sure how that's as lame.

Auspex was used to reveal auras and provide a temporary stat increase, particularly to enhance firearms and defense. It was also useful for hacking. Now it's going to reveal auras as well as allow you to scout areas ahead and stun people. That's just as lame in my opinion.

Literally the only useful part of that was increasing Perception if you went ranged, and it only gave a decent amount at lvl 4 and 5.

This one reveals weaknesses, allows for exploration and has a direct combat use with crowd control.

[Apeironic_Entelechy]

It was incredibly easy to ignore bloodshield in Bloodlines 1, it wasn't bad but I don't think we're missing anything by its absence.

I don't mind fewer powers, I have ten powers in my Bloodlines 1 Tremere playthrough and the majority of them are superfluous. I pretty much only use Blood Strike, Blood Boil, and Possession. If the devs can make the existing powers fun to use and effective then trimming away the chaff would be a good thing in my book.

I think Bloodlines 2 Tremere look like a really fun Clan to play.

[Amadeo]

Originally posted by Aldaris:

Originally posted by Amadeo:

Auspex was used to reveal auras and provide a temporary stat increase, particularly to enhance firearms and defense. It was also useful for hacking. Now it's going to reveal auras as well as allow you to scout areas ahead and stun people. That's just as lame in my opinion.

Literally the only useful part of that was increasing Perception if you went ranged, and it only gave a decent amount at lvl 4 and 5.

This one reveals weaknesses, allows for exploration and has a direct combat use with crowd control.

Yes, as I wrote before, it had three lame applications related to combat, hacking, and stealth (aura reveal). It's biggest problem, by the way, was that sneaking around and shooting things don't work together very well. Now we traded two of these applications for some exploration and limited crowd control, which are just as lame.

My guess is that Malkavians are also going to have Auspex (Tories will have Presence and will share Celerity with Brujahs). Guess which discipline is going to be ditched almost every playthrough by almost every player out there...

[Amadeo]

Originally posted by Fourthspartan56:

It was incredibly easy to ignore bloodshield in Bloodlines 1, it wasn't bad but I don't think we're missing anything by its absence.

I don't mind fewer powers, I have ten powers in my Bloodlines 1 Tremere playthrough and the majority of them are superfluous. I pretty much only use Blood Strike, Blood Boil, and Possession. If the devs can make the existing powers fun to use and effective then trimming away the chaff would be a good thing in my book.

I think Bloodlines 2 Tremere look like a really fun Clan to play.

And I always used Blood Shield and never used Blood Strike. I also relied on Purge, Trance, Suicide, and Mass Suicide. That's the point, with access to ten active powers across two disciplines, we can create two very different characters. If the number of active powers is always limited to four, we don't really have much choice in the matter, and our characters will always be nearly identical.

[Aldaris]

Originally posted by Amadeo:

Originally posted by Aldaris:

Literally the only useful part of that was increasing Perception if you went ranged, and it only gave a decent amount at lvl 4 and 5.

This one reveals weaknesses, allows for exploration and has a direct combat use with crowd control.

Yes, as I wrote before, it had three lame applications related to combat, hacking, and stealth (aura reveal). It's biggest problem, by the way, was that sneaking around and shooting things don't work together very well. Now we traded two of these applications for some exploration and limited crowd control, which are just as lame.

My guess is that Malkavians are also going to have Auspex (Tories will have Presence and will share Celerity with Brujahs). Guess which discipline is going to be ditched almost every playthrough by almost every player out there...

Utterly failing to see how some actual utility is lame. Exploration is a massive part of on RPG, and some combat usage against enemies. It does something now. It did nothing before.

[Apeironic_Entelechy]

Originally posted by Amadeo:

Originally posted by Fourthspartan56:

It was incredibly easy to ignore bloodshield in Bloodlines 1, it wasn't bad but I don't think we're missing anything by its absence.

I don't mind fewer powers, I have ten powers in my Bloodlines 1 Tremere playthrough and the majority of them are superfluous. I pretty much only use Blood Strike, Blood Boil, and Possession. If the devs can make the existing powers fun to use and effective then trimming away the chaff would be a good thing in my book.

I think Bloodlines 2 Tremere look like a really fun Clan to play.

And I always used Blood Shield and never used Blood Strike. I also relied on Purge, Trance, Suicide, and Mass Suicide. That's the point, with access to ten active powers across two disciplines, we can create two very different characters. If the number of active powers is always limited to four, we don't really have much choice in the matter, and our characters will always be nearly identical.

Or it leads to more focused gameplay that involve gameplay styles focused on quality over quantity.

The problem with these sort of discussions is that they're intrinsically subjective, one's person chaff is another's diverse gameplay options. Disappointment is inevitable, hopefully people who agree with you can either tolerate the dev's game design or have mods to correct it.

[Amadeo]

"Or it leads to more focused gameplay that involve gameplay styles focused on quality over quantity.

The problem with these sort of discussions is that they're intrinsically subjective, one's person chaff is another's diverse gameplay options. Disappointment is inevitable, hopefully people who agree with you can either tolerate the dev's game design or have mods to correct it."

You are missing the point. We both used a limited number of active powers. Yet, our powers of choice, and thus gameplay styles, were very different despite the fact that we concentrated on developing the same two disciplines. Reducing the number of active powers from 10 to 4 effectively eliminates any possibility of making a meaningful choice. You will be running around casting Skewer and Purge, along with an occasional Aura Reveal, and I will be running around casting Purge and Aura Reveal, with an occasional Skewer. The new system is more limiting; there is nothing subjective about it.

[Cryomancer]

Dont forget the lack of domination

[Cryomancer]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Not sure which Auspex your talking about, but it seems to be leaps and bounds more useful than the glorified X-Ray vision we got in bloodlines 1.

Also, Bloodshield is missing? Boo hoo, that discipline was so forgettable that I don't think I ever tried using it in a serious Tremere playthrough.

Was one of the best disciplines. I dont enen need to have high soak

[Apeironic_Entelechy]

Originally posted by C4MP3R:

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Not sure which Auspex your talking about, but it seems to be leaps and bounds more useful than the glorified X-Ray vision we got in bloodlines 1.

Also, Bloodshield is missing? Boo hoo, that discipline was so forgettable that I don't think I ever tried using it in a serious Tremere playthrough.

Was one of the best disciplines. I dont enen need to have high soak

It's fine to like it but that's just silly, you don't even need high soak if you kill everyone with Blood Strike+Blood Boil.

If you needed the defense as a Tremere you were doing it wrong.

[Cryomancer]

Originally posted by Fourthspartan56:

Originally posted by C4MP3R:

Was one of the best disciplines. I dont enen need to have high soak

It's fine to like it but that's just silly, you don't even need high soak if you kill everyone with Blood Strike+Blood Boil.

If you needed the defense as a Tremere you were doing it wrong.

You dont need, but become near indestructible...

[D-503]

Originally posted by Amadeo:

And I always used Blood Shield and never used Blood Strike. I also relied on Purge, Trance, Suicide, and Mass Suicide. That's the point, with access to ten active powers across two disciplines, we can create two very different characters. If the number of active powers is always limited to four, we don't really have much choice in the matter, and our characters will always be nearly identical.

I largely agree. The removal of the traditional 3rd discipline from all the clans is just a mistake, pure and simple.

I'm a little shocked they bothered with Auspex as a unique power. As I said elsewhere, I just assumed all vampires would get the first two dots of it as a passive ability, in order to accommodate the new thin-blood discipline. I further assumed Tremere would get their most powerful disciplines as a result.

None of this would be an issue without that stupid thin-blood discipline. Or, it also wouldn't be an issue if we just had 4 disciplines once we joined a clan, TB plus the 3.

All that aside, it would have been nice to get some more variety out of Thaumaturgy and Auspex.

Blood Potency would be a logical active buff in lieu of Blood Shield. Telepathy would be good in conversations with humans, and maybe some weak vampires. Or what about the ability to "read" objects? It'd be nice to see some story uses for disciplines; especially since we're only getting 2 traditional ones per clan.

It's possible there will be story uses for some disciplines, but if that's the case, you'd think they'd mention it.