repeating crossbow is one point too weak.

[Ichthyic]

I tested the damage ranges against weak armor and average armor, and no matter what the circumstances, two hand xbows outperfom the repeater.

every character that has xbow skill can get 3 shots per turn with dual hand xbows, which does 6-9 per shot (so 18-27 for a round).

the repeater can be shot 5 times, in the first round, then only 3 max in the second (because of the huge reload time).

it does 3-6, so in the first round you are doing 15-30 damage. this is basically the same average (excluding any armor at all) as dual hand xbows. next round, and every round thereafter, the dual xbows will be doing more damage per round than the repeater.

now, include even weak leather armor, and the dual xbows outperform the repeater hugely.

suggestion:

either make the repeater faster to reload (4 instead of 6), or increase the damage of each shot by one point min/max (so 4-7 per shot instead of 3-6). or both even.

you get it fairly late game, so the repeater should be a significant step UP, not a step down.

[Aged Swine]

Originally posted by Ichthyic:

every character that has xbow skill can get 3 shots per turn with dual hand xbows, which does 6-9 per shot (so 18-27 for a round).

If we are talking about a 10 AP character, he can even make 4 shots on first turn, because you have 2 hands and 2 belt slots. :)

With 12 AP it's even 5 (+2 AP to switch to another preloaded hand crossbow from inventory instead of reloading).

So yes, I don't see much point in using repeaters at all... wood is extremely abundant, you can craft 30 hand crossbows and haul them all around for all I care - it's better than spending 3 AP on reload. :D

...Of course, you can use the same trick with repeaters. Then you'd spend 4 AP on switch instead of 6 on reload. ;) That's at least 4 shots per turn with 12 AP (as opposed to max 3 with hand crossbows on second turn and later).

The damage is still too low, of course. By the time you get a repeater, all enemies use heavy armor, mostly with shields...

[Ichthyic]

likewise, the heavy crossbow loses out to the standard crossbow in every way, if you have a character with at least 12 ap.

it essentially does double the damage per round.

heavy xbow should do wayyy more damage than it does, and only be able to shoot once per round. so say instead of 10-13, it does 18-24 (yes, that much increase), but it takes 8 ap to reload it. then it might be worthwhile to use against heavy armored, high CS defense opponents.

otherwise, again, it's a waste.

I recall modding these items when I played AOD for exactly the same reasons. sad to see they have not changed a thing since then, even with all the player feedback.

oh well.

I suppose I could mod it again if I really wanted to, but it's a hassle to mod these games, as I have to hex edit everything.

[Pladio]

I think you are not thinking about balancing too much and only about optimal builds. Changing reload cost for heavy crossbow to 8 would mean someone with lower Dex won't be able to shoot.

It also would mean that it's much better to carry 20 heavy crossbows around and switch each turn as that would cost less AP than to reload.

[Ichthyic]

why would you be using a bow with dex less than 7? no character in the game has that low dex. the only person that could would be your primary character, and like I said... if your dex is that low, xbow is not the weapon for you anyway.

"It also would mean that it's much better to carry 20 heavy crossbows around and switch each turn as that would cost less AP than to reload."

it already does (currently takes 5ap to reload, and it takes 4ap to swap so...). if you are concerned about it, increase the weight signficantly as well. then carrying that many around would be difficult.

[Ichthyic]

Originally posted by kirill-busido:

Originally posted by Ichthyic:

I tested the damage ranges against weak armor and average armor, and no matter what the circumstances, two hand xbows outperfom the repeater.

every character that has xbow skill can get 3 shots per turn with dual hand xbows, which does 6-9 per shot (so 18-27 for a round).

the repeater can be shot 5 times, in the first round, then only 3 max in the second (because of the huge reload time).

it does 3-6, so in the first round you are doing 15-30 damage.

Repeating crossbow is really overpowered in CS build.

And CS build is what is best for crossbow since crossbow is unique weapon where aimed (torso) attacks take same AP as usual attacks. And usual attacks dont get -15% to CS despite having 2 AP cost (all other weapon 2-3 AP attacks are Fast which means -15% CS).


About "it does 3-6, so in the first round you are doing 15-30 damage"

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=828387598

18 dmg + 8 bleed per 1 shot, i assure you i do much more than 15-30 dmg in first round with repeater crossbow.

for one, this only applies to a very specific focused CS build. not for a standard archer character like roxana for example.

-bleed damage does not stack, just like poison.
-it does NOT do 18 damage per shot it does 18 damage TOTAL on average, for all FIVE shots.
-the ONLY way it is even remotely effective as is is if you hit every shot a crit, otherwise armor absorbs all.

so no, just because YOU built a monster crit machine, does not mean the item does not need a boost to base damage.

your argument is faulty, very very faulty.

[Ichthyic]

Originally posted by kirill-busido:

You also forget that repeater crossbow have more range than hand crossbow, this is important.

THAT I will agree with, but then, if range is important, swapping out double shot xbows is still better.

[Aged Swine]

Well, having different "best" weapons suitable for different builds in the same weapon class might actually be a good thing. But, even with a CS build, won't hand crossbow be even more effective?

[Aged Swine]

...Just thought of another fancy trick to improve repeater's rate of fire. :)

You need to play with a party, have Roxana with xbow + CS, plus some other "useless" char with at least 10 AP (e.g. main char with 8 dex, 10 cha, 10 int ).

Give repeater to Roxie, make her shoot 5 times, then unequip it on her last 2 AP. Then your main char picks it up, reloads and drops it into common inventory again (2+6+2=10 AP). Next turn, Roxie picks it up again and shoots 5 more times immediately.

...Of course, this too is very build-specific, and swapping is still easier and just as effective. And Roxana is better off with throwing anyway. But I'll have to try this one day.