SPEAR & DODGE User - game mechanics and stats [spoil me]

[bossanova]

Hello Good People of the Dungeon Rats Board,

I played AOD 3 times through and received some advice from these steam boards.

Apparently I did not learn enough from those playthroughs.

I created a DR character with these stats to use as a Spear & Dodge fighter:

STR 6
DEX 10
CON 6
PER 6
INT 4
CHA 8

This character is decent BUT I do not think it will get me through the whole game.



Next I tried a minor adjustment...moved 2 points to strength:

STR 8
DEX 8
CON 6
PER 6
INT 4
CHA 8

It is hard to tell if this character is doing any better.



So...Do I stick with dexterity to have the Dodge & Spear Bonus?

Do I go with the higher strength so that when I hit I do more damage?

Do I increase perception so that I actually hit more often?

Any Advice would be helpful especially if it explains the mechanics involved relative to the builds I mentioned.

Thank You !

[Vince]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/531930/discussions/0/224446340335764256/
^ ironman/psychopath with a spearwall team

http://steamcommunity.com/app/531930/discussions/0/154645214959464885/
^ solo 1-handed spear + throwing

[bossanova]

Hello Vince,

Thank You for the links and for helping to create a Very Challenging Tactical game that has fully captivated my interest.

However they did not help me much.

I am 45 years old so I was at the very beginning of RPG.

Many hours devoted to pencil & paper. RIP Mr. Gygax.

Who could forget ET the Extra Terrestrial & Raiders of the Lost Ark for the Atari 2600?

These were the first games to take us from the table to the screen.

Fast Forward: BALDUR'S GATE...enough said.

This was the first true real RPG to give us detailed combat and intricate rules that mimicked
classic pencil and paper.

AND...it was Actually Tactical even though you could dump stats. The placement of your party members actually mattered. As the decision making process of what weapom to use [skeletons & zombies watch out for those maces] and what spell to cast and when.

Few games today give us challenging tactics. Dragon Age:Origins is one of the best RPG ever BUT I admit it has very little tactics even on hard. Your created character and the members you gather along the way turn into Alexander the Great in a short period of time.

I AM trying to figure out Dungeon Rats. I think I am at least half way intelligent and somewhat perceptive. I study each battle and the movements of my adversaries.

I have discovered that my party members take A LOT of Damage Every Battle and another observation is that Ranged Using foes seem to give me trouble.

Since my first post I have learned to conserve healing items. I was originally using them at every chance I got. I also now have armor BUT only Leather with DR2 and Zero THC penalty due to advanced crafting.

I have made it past the "First Three" Roxana fights. Only to arrive at a wooden doorway with a named gentleman [escapes me atm]. At this point I am beat up bad with no healing.

I have no confidence that my build and party members can make it through the game.

If anyone has read this far I Thank You.

Peace.

Roger S.

[Vince]

Originally posted by bossanova:

I am 45 years old so I was at the very beginning of RPG.

I'm 46.

Fast Forward: BALDUR'S GATE...enough said.

This was the first true real RPG to give us detailed combat and intricate rules that mimicked
classic pencil and paper.

For me it was Realms of Arkania. I've even penned an article called The Lost Magic:
http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,2365.0.html

Few games today give us challenging tactics. Dragon Age:Origins is one of the best RPG ever BUT I admit it has very little tactics even on hard.

To say the least. Bioware sells heroic fantasy which means you have to be a mighty hero right from the start.

I have made it past the "First Three" Roxana fights. Only to arrive at a wooden doorway with a named gentleman [escapes me atm]. At this point I am beat up bad with no healing.

If it's any consolation it's a very tough fight. Anyway, send me your save and I will take a look.

[e-mail]

[Vince]

PS.

Originally posted by bossanova:

I created a DR character with these stats to use as a Spear & Dodge fighter:

STR 6
DEX 10
CON 6
PER 6
INT 4
CHA 8

This character is decent BUT I do not think it will get me through the whole game.

Next I tried a minor adjustment...moved 2 points to strength:

STR 8
DEX 8
CON 6
PER 6
INT 4
CHA 8

It is hard to tell if this character is doing any better.

So...Do I stick with dexterity to have the Dodge & Spear Bonus?

Do I go with the higher strength so that when I hit I do more damage?

Do I increase perception so that I actually hit more often?

Any Advice would be helpful especially if it explains the mechanics involved relative to the builds I mentioned.

Thank You ! [/quote]
In general, both characters are fine and have what it takes to beat the game. While stats matter you don't have to have a very specific build to have a chance.

All 4 stats in question provide a valuable bonus. High DEX gives you more AP and other stat-bonuses. High PER gives you a valuable to-hit bonus, which is always handy. Lowering CON to 5 is risky. You can decrease STR a bit but then you'd do less damage.

Anyway, you've made it far enough and the last fight against Roxana's thugs is fairly tough and stopped many adventurers, making them rage-quit in frustration. So you've already prevailed where many others have failed. Thus, if you're stuck now, it's not the stats and probably not the skills but tactics.

You have to kill the alchemist first and find way to incapacitate the leader (a bomb might work, or aimed attack: head, even a net) otherwise he'd kill you in 2-3 hits.

[kony]

To be honest, CON seems a bit like a dump stat in this game to me. It's better to focus on defense skill and avoid being hit, than having a high CON, because even if it helps you survive fights, you're more likely to run out of healing items. I wouldn't recommend getting less than 5, but on the other hand any point beyond that feels like a waste to me.

[bossanova]

HELP !!!!!

OK...OK...OK...I have attempted this one fight literally 20 times.

It is the "Third Roxana" fight...A Longbowman is across a River.

A regular Bowman is on a wooden deck.

An Axeman WITH a Bomb is in Front along with a Spear User.

IS there some "secret code" built into the game where it knows that you party is "powerful" or fully healed and it makes the battle more difficult?

Created Character:
Spear 6
Dodge 6
Alchemy 3
Numeri Leather DR 2 Penality 0
Iron Dori - Balanced, Master Work - with poison AND sharpening stone

Marcus:
Hammer 6
Dodge: 7
Numeri Leather DR2 Penality 0
Iron Sledgehammer - Balanced, Master Work - with poison

Quintas:
Sword 5
Block 6
Numeri Leather DR1 Penality 4
Buckler DR4 Penality 0
Xiphos Sword - Balanced, Master Work - poison

Ardomir: [he is spread a little to thin]
Crossbow 4
Throwing 6
Dodge 4
CS 4
Standard Crossbow
Bronze Plumbata - Balanced, Serrated Edge
Bronze Handox - Balanced, Serrated Edge

PLUS each member has the exact same Heavy Numeri Helment - DR3 THC 0

WHAT DO I DO?...WHAT DID I DO WRONG?

Please Spell It Out Fully...Totally Spoil Me.

I want the Exact Spot of where to put each party member, what weapon to use at what time,
when to attack, when to wait, when to move away.

THANK YOU !

[Scathe]

the most important thing in that fight is to make sure the axeman doesnt throw his bomb. I have found that he usualy will choose not to throw it if your party is spread out and someone is in melee with him. if someone is in melee with the axeman he will back up, and if you get an attack of opportunity when he backs up then he wont get an action besides backing up for the turn. I would try to send someone up twards the bowman on the wooden deck and have my other 3 party members focus on the axeman. it could be tricky to keep them somewhat spread out while focusing fire on the axeman. also try to make sure that whichever party member is closest to the bowman across the river does not turn his back on him. it may be important to convince the axeman not to throw his bomb to have your main character stay away from him and be the one that chases after the bowman on the deck, but I'm not sure.

your choice to use quintas instead of heiron will make the game harder on you for sure. also quintas is way too lightly armored for a block character I think. you need to give him heavier stuff since even when he blocks, sometimes it only reduces the damage by the amount of your combined shield DR + armor DR. I usualy use heiron and give him a heavy shield and armor and 3 hand crossbows.

[Scathe]

now.. I've tried to help.. but I dont know how reliable my advice is since I'm guessing you're playing on murderous psychopath and I have only beaten it on tough guy difficulty.

I think you definately want marcus to stay locked in melee range with the axeman as much as possible. possibly also quintas locked in melee range with the axeman as well, or maybe quintas bouncing in and out of melee range with the axeman if that helps keep your party more spread out and keeps the axeman from throwing his bomb.

[Scathe]

it also may be worth it to try having quintas chase after the bowman on the deck and having your main character focus on the axeman. the extra range on the spear would make it easier to stay spread out. you may need a net on the axeman too, not sure about that though. no doubt you want andomir and marcus focused on the axeman first.

[Scathe]

To get heavier armor for quintas or heiron for that point, well even ant chitin is heavier than what quintas has, but if possible I think in the deep caves there is a scorpion fight, which may be a bit hard for you at that point, not sure, but if you had done that you could get scorpion armor for him. also I think if I remember right there is a cavalry shield available from the previous fight. dont remember if it is good enough or not but if you had heiron in your party and if he already had 6 crafting at that point then he could make a good cavalry shield, which would be a definite upgrade from the buckler. your dodge characters probably have good enough armor for that point. 6 crafting does make ant chitin armor have 0penalty, so it is pretty desireable to get heiron to 6 crafting since he is so close to that point anyway. I got him to 8 crafting in my game which was also a big help, but he was at 6 at that point.

[Scathe]

another thing I just thought of (sorry for making so many total posts in a row) it may be better for marcus to use the one handed spiked mace for that fight rather than the sledgehammer. I'm not sure about this but I think that attacks of opportunity don't trigger till they move completely out of range, and if the axeman backs up one square against a sledgehammer the sledgehammer might be still in range and not trigger an attack of opportinity, whereas with the spiked mace he would potentialy get one. getting an attack of opportunity to interrupt his chance to throw a bomb could be very important.

[bossanova]

Hello Scathe [and Vince...TY for your time and kony]

It is fine that you leave posts in a row. I appreciate your input and advice.

Well...I Finished that Battle...with only significant damage to one party member...YAY !

It took only 5 attempts this time.

You DID Help.

The Difference Maker was the fact that I gave Quintas the Lorica Armor and Large Shield.

This allowed him to absorb / block the shots from the Bowman across the river and from the Spear User. He stayed in the fight longer to be useful and attack the Axeman.

Marcus stayed with the Axeman and My Created Character [Spear / Dodge] hit the Axeman first then maneuvered onto the deck to take care of the other Bowman.

Ardomir stayed back to use throwing. I forgot who he hit first but I think it was the Bowman on the deck. Then I think he chipped away at the Axeman and Spear User.

I do not like to "cheat" BUT I heard that the Next battle is even More Difficult then this one.

YIKES !

So one can now lower the bridge and go back to camp.

I guess I will invite Hieron into the party per your suggestion.

BUT...

Who should the Fouth member be? Is Quintas really that bad?

Ardomir has NO Defense and this seems to negatively effect his role in the party.

Maybe it should be My Spear / Dodge, Marcus, Hieron AND Quintas ?

THANK YOU !

[Scathe]

I'm not realy sure honestly. however... you're now just one fight from adding roxanna to the party, and roxanna is amazing. I like ardomir... but I'm not sure if you've given him the best build or not. I dont know enough about throwing, I always use crossbows for ranged. congrats on progressing

[Scathe]

the thing about adding heiron now is that he will be somewhat behind in collecting skillups. I've usualy given him a point in crossbows and a point in crafting and maybe even a point in block by the point you're at.. I'm not sure how effective he'll be at this point. maybe you should just go with quintas and ardomir till you get roxanna. I would probably at that point drop quintas for roxanna before ardomir, but I'm not sure. there should be some easier fights later that you can get heiron a point or two in as the 4th to get his crafting up. not realy sure about that though.

[Scathe]

Hmm, now I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't have spoiled the fact that roxanna will join your party after your next fight. I was doing some more thinking about your situation. it is hard to say what characters would be "best" for you. I think your best party for your next fight specificaly is the one you've been using all game. after that it is clear that roxanna should join, but there are good arguements for keeping all 3 of your other followers.

I'll start by defending ardomir, since he seems to be one you most want to be done with. basicaly this comes down to a preference in overall strategy, I would want 2 ranged attackers and 2 melee attackers over 3 melee and 1 ranged for most of the game personaly, and ardomir is your second best ranged attacker (after roxanna), thus a good fit.

it would help the arguement to keep quintas if you kept ardomir, cause you will need someone with block to place inbetween ardomir and enemy ranged attackers. block is better against ranged than dodge, and as your best blocker, quintas has a pretty strong arguement for staying. one thing that counts against him is that some of the enemies late in the game are immune to bleeding so his sword may feel a bit useless.

Marcus has more skill points than ardomir or quintas, and hammers are useful for the whole game, but a melee with dodge might actualy be less useful to you in some cases than a melee with block, so I could actualy see removing marcus for roxanna potentialy.

I feel 2 melee 2 ranged plays into the strengths of your spear better than 3 melee 1 ranged. with spears, if you have a battle map with space to fall back, then you can potentialy keep falling back and interrupting the enemy advance, while your ranged party members pick off the enemy. you wont have the space to fall back in all fights though, so sometimes 3 melee 1 ranged will be better. with 3 melee your melee will probably just all move up and attack most of the time, less opportunity to take advantage of your spear's passive ability. but 3 melee 1 ranged can still be effective so it boils down to whatever your preferred playstyle is.