Power Curve Frustrations..

[Reoden]

Hey, so I'm having a lot of frustration with flooding/power screw issues with decks i'm trying to mess around with. Was hoping someone might be able to help.

I've enjoyed the game thus far, hit Master in every game mode after no-lifing the game for a month.. but now I'm bored of playing my best deck and want to mess around.. but power curve issues are killing any enjoyment I might be able to get from the game..

I've been messing around with Shiftstoned, getting 80% + on most of my important cards.. but it still feels like I run into these issues all the time and my salt levels are going through the roof.

If some experienced deck crafter could give me a hand I'd appreciate it. For example this is an Argenport deck I've been trying to get to work but it feels like I've endured hours of power bullsh*** issues with it.

Warcry link: https://eternalwarcry.com/decks/d/MQJPVMRK0OI/hero-of-argenport
Shifstoned: https://www.shiftstoned.com/epc/?d=CI9BEBiECH_BEB4MB_hBFEBrEBGiDBHnCEIgCDCsCCIlCCB9DEB8EDIqCDB4EDCsHBE8GCD6DCEhHBB9IBIwEHB-DHB5HEHjGCD3IBH9BEA3BCAABHlEBHxCBBvEBIpCBItC&t=%5BReoden%5D%20Hero%20Of%20Argenport

Thanks in advance for any aid.

[SPE]

You can put power cards in your market, but the new market rules of exclusivity applies, so it may be less attractive to do so now. Still worth mentioning. Usually a two-coloured power card with "Depleted unless you have a unit" is the best idea, because in most cases you will just have played a merchant to draw it.

Your 4xSeek Power are nice, but real power ramping comes from cards that increase your power in addition to the sigil you can play every turn. Obviously Time is the best faction for this, but other factions may allow you to play power cards on the same turn, that you also play power cards from your hand. The Justice valkyrie that can play a Justice sigil for 3 power comes to mind, since your deck example is Justice.

Use the filter with these settings: Owned, Unowned, Non-Premium, Cardtype:Power (unchecked).
Then use the search filter and look for things like Sigil and Power.

It will show you all cards with those keywords, that are not themselves power cards, and you will see them whether you already own them or not. For specific factions, just narrow your filters as desired.

Hope it helps.

[Reoden]

Frankly I've just about given up on this game, as I feel like these issues are intrinsic to this style of game where you have to draw and play out your power. Maybe it's only 10 or 15% of the games where you get power flooded or screwed (feels more like 20-30%), but these issues killed my enjoyment of the game as it felt like the game was wasting my time with frustrating RNG. Been enjoying other games like Minion Masters and Gwent more.

Thanks for trying to help though. If I do give Eternal another chance I'll have to try crafting the faction merchants.. though if memory serves they are not allowed in Expedition.. so I can't even try that to fix this power nonsense.. same with some Banners and some Insignias which are also locked in Exp for some reason..

Honestly I feel like the game itself needs to be changed. As it stands, IMO it's too complicated for casual play, and too draw dependent to be fun or satisfying for competitive play.

[Reoden]

I made a video showcasing a typical match that is ruined by these issues, where I got power locked for like 4 turns then drew nothing but power for 3 turns after that.. and discuss what might be some possible ways to fix the issue.

I see that the new expansion contains a mechanic which lets you reroll cards into a power or non-power. Frankly I see this as a mixed sign. It says you recognize the problem exists, but you are putting a band-aid on it. In my opinion ALL decks need that increased consistency, it shouldn't be a mechanic on some weak-powered cards.

TL;DR of my suggestions:
1. Draw 2 cards per turn. Either 2 random cards, or 1 power, 1 non-power.
2. Make 3rd mulligan no longer cost you a card, and perhaps lock it to 3 Power, not 2-4.
3. Make mulligan able to discard 1 specific card, keep the rest of the hand. Let both players compete with their best possible hands.

If anyone wants to watch the video it's here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic78-29ZD2k

[SPE]

I don't disagree with you at all.

That said, there are some good reasons why many games of this type use randomized power draw.

The online card games that have predetermined fixed and steadily increasing power are no better. They feel more sterile, and each match plays out much the same as the last, so you simply have less volatility, and never any suspense when you desperately need that 1 extra power at a critical time.

But yeah,. Eternal could revisit its draw rules.

[Reoden]

Originally posted by SPE:

I don't disagree with you at all.

That said, there are some good reasons why many games of this type use randomized power draw.

The online card games that have predetermined fixed and steadily increasing power are no better. They feel more sterile, and each match plays out much the same as the last, so you simply have less volatility, and never any suspense when you desperately need that 1 extra power at a critical time.

But yeah,. Eternal could revisit its draw rules.

I used to feel the same about Hearthstone, but I think that's more to do with HS just being a far simpler game.

Gwent offers up a system that is currently my favorite, in which you start with a full hand and can play any card in any order. There's still a bit of draw RNG of course, but it feels like the player has much more agency as to what happens.

Minion Masters' spin on it is that your power steadily grows and replenishes, but you save up and spend it as you see fit on the cards in your hand, and cycle through your deck in order drawn/played. MM is perhaps a more simple game in terms of card mechanics, with more reaction/timing necessary instead.

I find both of these systems far more engaging personally, but that's because apparently the joy you find in needing to draw power just feels like frustration to me at not being able to play my cards. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.
(I might feel that joy for the first turn, maybe two, but if I get power locked or flooded 3+ turns in a row, I probably will want nothing more to do with the game for at least that evening).

And of course, those games do have their own issues. Nothing is perfect.

I'd personally be very interested to play Eternal where you draw 2 cards per turn, or if they implemented Gwent's mulligan system where you toss back individual cards instead of your whole hand.

[Reoden]

Oh and a final point to add, the draw 2 cards per turn idea is also meant to address top deck wars, which I personally find boring to play or watch. I don't think it's all that interesting to tune in to a major tournament and find a top deck war. Not sure if that's an unpopular opinion..

Also don't know why Finals in a major tournament are apparently only a best of 3? That's pretty confusing, too.

[TryToGetThis]

Originally posted by Reoden:

Oh and a final point to add, the draw 2 cards per turn idea is also meant to address top deck wars, which I personally find boring to play or watch. I don't think it's all that interesting to tune in to a major tournament and find a top deck war. Not sure if that's an unpopular opinion..

Also don't know why Finals in a major tournament are apparently only a best of 3? That's pretty confusing, too.

It's because of stepping into unkown territory and not knowing how to handle aspects of your own game. Also like this there is no e sport future for this game as everything is based upon greed of the money generating model they use.

As example take the game gunz the duel from maiet. well if this isn't the highest skill cap game on the whole planet than please shoot me. (if you dare to say its not i can show you wat it is to play vs skill and not to have it) This game is based on being able to hit a consistant lets say 600 strokes a minute on your keyboard in the right order right timing to do your moves and wat not. ( ow yes only left handed for you slowpokes) and still being able to shoot and aim dodge and wat not. but the point is. this game lost its original developers and host. but the community liked it saw its potential. so it became one of the first big f2p ofps of its days. and sure had a business model to generate cash. ( which these devs should look into) the community picked up the game. the major flaws got deleted. ( this doesnt happen here at all at all at all!) for your info for most people out there this game is probably older than you and is still being played and hosted. why because people like it because people know what they get. now lets say devs. rather have 20 years steady income? or few years a sort of gold rush?

[Reoden]

Originally posted by TryToGetThis:

Originally posted by Reoden:

Oh and a final point to add, the draw 2 cards per turn idea is also meant to address top deck wars, which I personally find boring to play or watch. I don't think it's all that interesting to tune in to a major tournament and find a top deck war. Not sure if that's an unpopular opinion..

Also don't know why Finals in a major tournament are apparently only a best of 3? That's pretty confusing, too.

It's because of stepping into unkown territory and not knowing how to handle aspects of your own game. Also like this there is no e sport future for this game as everything is based upon greed of the money generating model they use.

As example take the game gunz the duel from maiet. well if this isn't the highest skill cap game on the whole planet than please shoot me. (if you dare to say its not i can show you wat it is to play vs skill and not to have it) This game is based on being able to hit a consistant lets say 600 strokes a minute on your keyboard in the right order right timing to do your moves and wat not. ( ow yes only left handed for you slowpokes) and still being able to shoot and aim dodge and wat not. but the point is. this game lost its original developers and host. but the community liked it saw its potential. so it became one of the first big f2p ofps of its days. and sure had a business model to generate cash. ( which these devs should look into) the community picked up the game. the major flaws got deleted. ( this doesnt happen here at all at all at all!) for your info for most people out there this game is probably older than you and is still being played and hosted. why because people like it because people know what they get. now lets say devs. rather have 20 years steady income? or few years a sort of gold rush?

Do.. do you feel better now?

I'm trying to provide constructive criticism cus I actually liked this game, and think it can be much better with some relatively small tweaks. Would be cool if you didnt hijack this thread to spew vitriol because apparently you came to the forums to vent.

Also why are we comparing card games to arcade shooters? I'm sure the people over at Quake or Unreal Tournament forums would love to argue with you about your favorite game and its place in arcade shooter history.
Though btw I was curious so I watched a bit of what claims to be a "pro clan war" for Gunz.. I promise you that's nowhere near 600 apm, even including mouse clicks. Go watch old school Star Craft: Broodwar Korean pro Zerg player's POV if you want to see what 600+ apm really looks like. IIRC a player named July had some of the craziest APM in the world.

Also are you just.. very young? That GunZ game came out in 2004.. that's old for fortnite players, but probably not so much for CCG fans. Personally I was playing Diablo 2 before Gunz was ever published. Not that that means much, I guess?

But again.. none of this has any relevance to card games. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[TryToGetThis]

Originally posted by Reoden:

Originally posted by TryToGetThis:

It's because of stepping into unkown territory and not knowing how to handle aspects of your own game. Also like this there is no e sport future for this game as everything is based upon greed of the money generating model they use.

As example take the game gunz the duel from maiet. well if this isn't the highest skill cap game on the whole planet than please shoot me. (if you dare to say its not i can show you wat it is to play vs skill and not to have it) This game is based on being able to hit a consistant lets say 600 strokes a minute on your keyboard in the right order right timing to do your moves and wat not. ( ow yes only left handed for you slowpokes) and still being able to shoot and aim dodge and wat not. but the point is. this game lost its original developers and host. but the community liked it saw its potential. so it became one of the first big f2p ofps of its days. and sure had a business model to generate cash. ( which these devs should look into) the community picked up the game. the major flaws got deleted. ( this doesnt happen here at all at all at all!) for your info for most people out there this game is probably older than you and is still being played and hosted. why because people like it because people know what they get. now lets say devs. rather have 20 years steady income? or few years a sort of gold rush?

Do.. do you feel better now?

I'm trying to provide constructive criticism cus I actually liked this game, and think it can be much better with some relatively small tweaks. Would be cool if you didnt hijack this thread to spew vitriol because apparently you came to the forums to vent.

Also why are we comparing card games to arcade shooters? I'm sure the people over at Quake or Unreal Tournament forums would love to argue with you about your favorite game and its place in arcade shooter history.
Though btw I was curious so I watched a bit of what claims to be a "pro clan war" for Gunz.. I promise you that's nowhere near 600 apm, even including mouse clicks. Go watch old school Star Craft: Broodwar Korean pro Zerg player's POV if you want to see what 600+ apm really looks like. IIRC a player named July had some of the craziest APM in the world.

Also are you just.. very young? That GunZ game came out in 2004.. that's old for fortnite players, but probably not so much for CCG fans. Personally I was playing Diablo 2 before Gunz was ever published. Not that that means much, I guess?

But again.. none of this has any relevance to card games. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Ya if it makes you feel better you can awnser like that.

You say its toxic when i spit out pure facts of truth why it can not be this way.
any experienced player in gaming in general lets say the 50k + hour type knows this just by looking at the games structure. the excuse you use to me is just to demoralize me and the old game which states a beautiful economy and a brilliant example of how other games should follow as in a business model. for revenue and player base. ( and they already proof to do this better just look at steam charts)

PS: guinness book of records - Record for fastest keystrokes while gaming under a minute.

Martin - Mindless- **** 919. (K-gunz maiet entertainment) so also in that aspect you can talk a lot of your own assuming self before checking facts. (and especially for you no hes not just punching his keyboard to do this) but ya like you said has hardly any relevance. and its because people like you who dont check anything read stuff with their angry eyes at life assuming someone is raging behind a keyboard reacting themselfs like a little kid. explained? Now google before you awnser thanks.

[Reoden]

Lol. Umm.. At this point I'm pretty sure you're either trolling or a very.. angry.. young person. So yeah.. Not really interested in continuing this conversation.

I did actually check to see if that record exists, but Guinness' website is next to useless and google couldn't find it.. so why don't you link it for me if it does exist.

[TryToGetThis]

Originally posted by Reoden:

Lol. Umm.. At this point I'm pretty sure you're either trolling or a very.. angry.. young person. So yeah.. Not really interested in continuing this conversation.

I did actually check to see if that record exists, but Guinness' website is next to useless and google couldn't find it.. so why don't you link it for me if it does exist.

Again assuming things cause your mad yourself? i guess so he.
It started with the lemmings and not diablo to give you a perspective ;) (edit: this is only counting pc.)

And that you are not capable of using search function is not for me to be bothered about as I see other people have no issue in doing so.

by the way the point was: this game lost its original developers and host. but the community liked it saw its potential. so it became one of the first big f2p ofps of its days. and sure had a business model to generate cash. ( which these devs should look into) the community picked up the game. the major flaws got deleted. ( this doesnt happen here at all at all at all!) for your info for most people out there this game is probably older than you and is still being played and hosted. why because people like it because people know what they get. now lets say devs. rather have 20 years steady income? or few years a sort of gold rush?

But i guess you missed that.

[Reoden]

What toxic little gremlin. Go away.

[Krom]

Id consider adding unseen longbows to the argenport deck for pledge;

+Two cards/ per turn might be hard to balance since knucklebones is a thing; can see it possibly working somehow on top decking,

[dracul]

I was having the inconsistent power issues that are familiar to this thread, until I went with 26 power and 78 cards. While everyone now and again there might be a game where I'm a bit mana starved, I can say that after switching to this format for all my decks, I went from having power starvation issues in basically 1 out of 5 games, to... -maaaybe- 1 out of 20-25. and I can hardly remember getting flooded, as most of the issues are about not being able to deploy anything at all with starvation, vs flooding where it could mean dropping something and then transforming it or activating something else within the same turn.

Also, I send back hands that start with 2 power, UNLESS, i have 2 power, and 3+ two-drops.. in which case i'll give it serious consideration to keep. The minimum is 2 power draw, so on a re-roll, it can be... the same. its just a matter of the rest of the crap in my hand. Ive noticed that if I keep a 2 mana hand, it will highly likely stay at 2 mana for a loong time, so thats why I say, make sure you have plenty of 2 drops to work with if you want to keep that kind of hand, otherwise, ship it back, cause ull get at worst, a 2 mana hand

[Pyro]

Regarding draw issues, it is intrinsic. It's built into the game. Regarding power screw/flood, yes it's part of it. However, that's where deck building comes into play. As you build more decks you will find ways to solve it, but you gotta buy more cards/earn more cards. That's how the developers pay their bills.

Decks that are easier to access won't feel smooth. They are designed to lose by flood/screw or just underpowered cards. That's how many card games are designed.

You either "get into it" and play the game, learn to deck build, learn to remove cards you thought were good, and replace them with "fixing" mechanics... That's part of the game, it's a huge part of the game. If you're not pushing forward into it, then you're not playing that part of the game, and thus you feel it's unfair.

Even with great decks, especially in draft, you will experieince some screw sometimes. That's why nothing is 100% win rate. Take it in stride. Relax... enjoy yourself. Do NOT worry about losing. Don't even care if you do. Just play your best game... if you lose... and it was flood/screw then it's not your fault. conceed the match and move on. try not to give a crap about it. That's what I've learned.

Regarding the "deck battles" that happen in standard... it's only fun if you build decks that "target" the top decks lol. That's hilarious fun to get free wins all day on ladder because you build a deck that neutralizes the top deck (or two). The meta then shifts and adjusts so your deck isn't as good... you need to adapt.

That's happened to me recently. My deck was killing everything... but the players started realizing what I was doing, and they teched in certain cards that made it far more difficult for me to harass their decks power. So now, I'm staying one step ahead, and I will adjust my deck to neutralize their new threats... 3 days from now I'll have to do it again... OR, I can literally not play for 3 days, and then come back blasting and likely be strong again as the meta will shift back to more "net deck" normalcy that is then targeted easily by people like me... who build our own decks. That's how I have fun in Magic, Eternal, and whatever else I've played. It's not cheap though to deck build... but, perhaps you will find it fun? I hope so. I'm always looking to play creative deck snipers