mana screw or flood too real

[Protekt1]

I hate the mulligan system. It's so backwards compared to contemporary card games like hearthstone. I blame the all or nothing mulligan approach. Games are more interesting when you actually make choices and when you're flooded you have to play what you draw and when you're screwed, well you probably can't do much of anything. It's just poor design, copying what MTG did with only the smallest of change.

[Stephenistall]

Първоначално публикувано от crystal:

Първоначално публикувано от romengan:

been said 100x already go away

I would like to hear the reason why they do nothing about this.

Actually, two of the new mechanics in dusk road - scout and nightfall - both do a lot to mitigate mana screw / flood. When you are seeing that much more of your deck, you are less likely not to draw what you need. Of course, it's still possible to be unlucky, but I do find non-games to be much less common.

[madlampy]

Първоначално публикувано от Mids:

Първоначално публикувано от madlampy:

I'm all for a more "tweaked" shuffler, don't get me wrong I'd love one along with a tweakable mana count and also a reshuffle every time you "tutored" a card, but the RNG is just that... RNG.

You just solved it dude, It's RNG that's the problem, a shuffle isn't strictly speaking random. If you assume the shuffle is perfect, then it isn't random at all.

The correct way to 'simulate' a shuffle isn't to randomly generate a card. It's to literally shuffle the array and used a small range RNG to simulate the imperfect shuffling that a human would do.

So random 0 to 5 for the number of imperfect shuffles. When you don't get every other card from the stack generate another say 1 to 4 for the number of extra cards. Cut the deck in half and shuffle. Every so many cards introduce an imperfect shuffle. Repeat 7 times, done.

And we call that mana weaving ;)

Please present deck to the judges table immediately for a Deck Check and possible DQ.

[LastSide]

Theres 3 outcomes your opponent must pass.
Mana screwed, Mana Flood and THEN have some good start.

Games tends to be faster than a Hearthstone match since you could be winning in less than 5 minutes.

[Mids]

Първоначално публикувано от madlampy:

Първоначално публикувано от Mids:

You just solved it dude, It's RNG that's the problem, a shuffle isn't strictly speaking random. If you assume the shuffle is perfect, then it isn't random at all.

The correct way to 'simulate' a shuffle isn't to randomly generate a card. It's to literally shuffle the array and used a small range RNG to simulate the imperfect shuffling that a human would do.

So random 0 to 5 for the number of imperfect shuffles. When you don't get every other card from the stack generate another say 1 to 4 for the number of extra cards. Cut the deck in half and shuffle. Every so many cards introduce an imperfect shuffle. Repeat 7 times, done.

And we call that mana weaving ;)

Please present deck to the judges table immediately for a Deck Check and possible DQ.

You have shuffled cards irl haven't you? It's literally an interleaving of 2 stacks of cards... after seven repeats the deck is considered to be shuffled. and it literally doesn't matter how you arrange the cards beforehand, it isn't going to make anything that even vaguely resembles any sort of desired order.

Also, having done a few thousand test shuffles in via script using the method I described above... it wouldn't actually solve the problem. It's still going to create clumps of sigils/no-sigils that go longer than 3 in a row.

So time for a new idea:

If they were to bump the starting hand size to 10 - this could be mitigated, in that a clump of 3-5 turns of flood/screw wouldn't run the player to being unable to do anything so quickly.

[kkemick]

I like that idea, it makes alot of sense. I think that would add quite a bit more strategy to the game as well.

[madlampy]

Първоначално публикувано от Mids:

Първоначално публикувано от madlampy:

And we call that mana weaving ;)

Please present deck to the judges table immediately for a Deck Check and possible DQ.

You have shuffled cards irl haven't you? It's literally an interleaving of 2 stacks of cards... after seven repeats the deck is considered to be shuffled. and it literally doesn't matter how you arrange the cards beforehand, it isn't going to make anything that even vaguely resembles any sort of desired order.

Also, having done a few thousand test shuffles in via script using the method I described above... it wouldn't actually solve the problem. It's still going to create clumps of sigils/no-sigils that go longer than 3 in a row.

So time for a new idea:

If they were to bump the starting hand size to 10 - this could be mitigated, in that a clump of 3-5 turns of flood/screw wouldn't run the player to being unable to do anything so quickly.

I'd personally like to see Box Pulls every draw rather than a one time Array Seed, but switching from one to the other would mean a whole recode for the array handling.

Also I was joking, unlike a lot of posters you've understood the limitations and also how PRNG works. A lot of people ask for something similar to the "proper way of shuffling in MAgic" where you layer 2 spells then a land, not realising they've just admitted to cheating and doing something that can get you banned from Competitive Play.

But yeah... there are possible ways that the draw could be improved but at the same time it's also not as bad as some posters think and they don't realise that they're just seeing the outliers on the curve in a process that is running thousands of iterations every hour.

[SportFrog]

They do need to rework power I think but more in the sense where they shouldn't have a power requirement for a deck. There's no reason why someone should have to have 1/3 of their deck be powers. I'm drawing way too much mana and I can't even decrease the amount in my deck becuase of the ridiculous requirement. Or even if they did have a requirement but have it be more like 1/4 of a deck should be powers. There should be a bit more freedom since different types of decks have different needs.

As far as Hearthstone goes, I played that religiously for awhile. Of course there is still a good chunk of RNG from card draw in that game, but there is a very heavy amount of RNG from card abilities. Due to that, strats/skill go out the door. It's a game of who is the luckiest players. There's a reason why I left Hearthstone and came to Eternal. Also, an intelligent person does provide and argument when they say someone is wrong. Not providing one just shows that you are ignorant.

[{F13}Storm]

Първоначално публикувано от Protekt1:

Първоначално публикувано от Ironside:

Hearthstone just loads all of their RNG directly onto card abilties insead. Listening to tweens failing to recognize the differences between this and babies first CCG is going to give me a nose bleed.

I first played MTG in the early 90s. And no, hearthstone doesn't load all their RNG directly into the cards themselves. You're pretty ignorant if you believe that.

if you don't believe that*

[LastSide]

Първоначално публикувано от SportFrog:

They do need to rework power I think but more in the sense where they shouldn't have a power requirement for a deck. There's no reason why someone should have to have 1/3 of their deck be powers. I'm drawing way too much mana and I can't even decrease the amount in my deck becuase of the ridiculous requirement. Or even if they did have a requirement but have it be more like 1/4 of a deck should be powers. There should be a bit more freedom since different types of decks have different needs.

As far as Hearthstone goes, I played that religiously for awhile. Of course there is still a good chunk of RNG from card draw in that game, but there is a very heavy amount of RNG from card abilities. Due to that, strats/skill go out the door. It's a game of who is the luckiest players. There's a reason why I left Hearthstone and came to Eternal. Also, an intelligent person does provide and argument when they say someone is wrong. Not providing one just shows that you are ignorant.

I do agree that somekind of rework of Sigil needs to be done!

You could be drawing for 25 turns Sigils. Theres no stopping that! Im hopping that MTG Arena has the freedom to add X amount of mana cause for a 75 card deck, theren aint no way Im willing to add 25 MANA!!!!!!

But since this is a requirement... you should exploit that! In my experience any deck that has a lot of low amount of cost cards, can win on turn 5-6.

[HighLanderPony]

Първоначално публикувано от LastSide:

Първоначално публикувано от SportFrog:

They do need to rework power I think but more in the sense where they shouldn't have a power requirement for a deck. There's no reason why someone should have to have 1/3 of their deck be powers. I'm drawing way too much mana and I can't even decrease the amount in my deck becuase of the ridiculous requirement. Or even if they did have a requirement but have it be more like 1/4 of a deck should be powers. There should be a bit more freedom since different types of decks have different needs.

As far as Hearthstone goes, I played that religiously for awhile. Of course there is still a good chunk of RNG from card draw in that game, but there is a very heavy amount of RNG from card abilities. Due to that, strats/skill go out the door. It's a game of who is the luckiest players. There's a reason why I left Hearthstone and came to Eternal. Also, an intelligent person does provide and argument when they say someone is wrong. Not providing one just shows that you are ignorant.

I do agree that somekind of rework of Sigil needs to be done!

You could be drawing for 25 turns Sigils. Theres no stopping that! Im hopping that MTG Arena has the freedom to add X amount of mana cause for a 75 card deck, theren aint no way Im willing to add 25 MANA!!!!!!

But since this is a requirement... you should exploit that! In my experience any deck that has a lot of low amount of cost cards, can win on turn 5-6.

The min power limit exists so that those decks that hit their top curve quickly aren't as overwhelming. You take a reliable consistent pool of cards but risk being flooded. It's a tradeoff and is intended.

[LastSide]

Heres an idea for a deck:

Unexpected Results
Excavate

Wow... It turned 12 cards in my deck to crap!!!!!
This is a great deck to exploit the mana system.

With 1 copy of Unexpected Results, which I got played on, you can turn his deck, and most of his spells, useless!
Theres a couple of things Unexpected Results and Exacvate will do... Cancel his draw and deal 5 damage!

Totally fun for you to try but jesus... what solitaire experience.

[Mr. X]

Maybe winning one power every turn, power cards serving mainly for influence purposes. But at this time its tricky to change...

[mute4u]

Meh,this game is history.

[Dysmetria]

Първоначално публикувано от mute4u:

Meh,this game is history.

Is there any particular reason you are necroing a year and a half old thread off of page 2 to tell someone named Meh that this game is history? Or is Meh supposed to guess?