comparison to MTG Arena

[Zero]

so im sick of Arena's matchmaking pitting me against teched out decks, does this game have a better matchmaking than arena? and is it any similar in terms of gameplay?

[Captain_Narol]

It's funny how Dysmetria who was precedently a strong supporter of Eternal suddenly started to diss the game after starting to play MTGA.

For one, I'll stick with Eternal when I have time to play it, I'm not really convinced by MTGA at this state and not happy with Wizards design choices.

To each their own, Eternal is a small game compared to Magic but I prefer its mecanisms and economy.

[Dysmetria]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Captain_Narol:

It's funny how Dysmetria who was precedently a strong supporter of Eternal suddenly started to diss the game after starting to play MTGA.

For one, I'll stick with Eternal when I have time to play it, I'm not really convinced by MTGA at this state and not happy with Wizards design choices.

To each their own, Eternal is a small game compared to Magic but I prefer its mecanisms and economy.

Yeah it's funny how as soon as I recommend MTGA, in a thread someone started to discuss and compare the two games, I'm now suddenly working for WOTC, dissing Eternal, and causing people to run away with their fingers in their ears shouting about how they can't hear me too.

But I'm not dissing Eternal, I'm just spending my limited game time playing MTGA for the reasons I listed. They are both great games, and while I tried to be realistic when comparng the two I am certainly not endorsing anyone choose one over the other. No one has to, they are two of many CCGs I play and by doing so there always seems to be new cards out for one of them.

[arejang]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Dysmetria:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Captain_Narol:

It's funny how Dysmetria who was precedently a strong supporter of Eternal suddenly started to diss the game after starting to play MTGA.

For one, I'll stick with Eternal when I have time to play it, I'm not really convinced by MTGA at this state and not happy with Wizards design choices.

To each their own, Eternal is a small game compared to Magic but I prefer its mecanisms and economy.

Yeah it's funny how as soon as I recommend MTGA, in a thread someone started to discuss and compare the two games, I'm now suddenly working for WOTC, dissing Eternal, and causing people to run away with their fingers in their ears shouting about how they can't hear me too.

But I'm not dissing Eternal, I'm just spending my limited game time playing MTGA for the reasons I listed. They are both great games, and while I tried to be realistic when comparng the two I am certainly not endorsing anyone choose one over the other. No one has to, they are two of many CCGs I play and by doing so there always seems to be new cards out for one of them.

I think what actually happened is you recommended MTGA while calling everyone who pointed out flaws with the game an ignorant troll who likes to stick fingers in their ears and refuses to listen to reason. You probably didn't notice all that unnecessary additional baggage you included in your posts when you could have simply ended your case with the strengths of the game and not included your opponent's intelligence in the conversation at all.

The 5th copy problem will be an ever-present blight in the game's economy. The value of a booster pack plummets when you start filling out your collection and begin picking up 5th copies. Since trading is not a thing in this game, when you pick up a fifth common card, that card is instantly converted into vault progress. All 0.1% of it. 5th uncommons are 0.3%. 5th rares are 0.5%. A bloody 5th mythic rare is 1.1%. On average you're not even getting 1/100 value of your card back when you start opening boosters with 5th copies in them. If I started this conversation off with, "the economy is so bad that players are refusing to open booster packs", you'd probably laugh at me. Demand me to show you evidence. If I cited you posts of players who actually decided to not open any boosters because of this problem, you'd brush it away that those players are entitled trolls and are probably lying about it anyway. It's the same reason you refuse to read reddit. Let's compare it to Eternal, that gives you 800 dust back for a 5th legendary card. You need 4 of those to craft a new legendary card compared to the hundred you would need in MTGA. The minimum value of a booster in that game is set high enough that it's never a total waste to open more boosters.

So what does that vault give you after burning so many boosters to open it? 3 uncommon wild cards, 2 rare wild cards, and 1 mythic rare wild card. You have to burn 100 mythic rare cards to get 1 mythic rare wild card back. The problem only gets worse the more common the rarity becomes.

Thus, the price of the booster becomes increasingly expensive for the value it provides, the more boosters you open. The crafting system is literally shooting themselves in the foot by not going the dust route and instead giving you less than 1/100th of the value back for buying too many boosters. Yeah there's absolutely nothing wrong with an economy like that.

I'm not saying people shouldn't open boosters. I still open them despite this. And the devs said they're continuing to look for a solution to this very real problem that's plagued this game since closed beta. It doesn't make the problem nonexistant though.

[Dysmetria]

Opprinnelig skrevet av arejang:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Dysmetria:

Yeah it's funny how as soon as I recommend MTGA, in a thread someone started to discuss and compare the two games, I'm now suddenly working for WOTC, dissing Eternal, and causing people to run away with their fingers in their ears shouting about how they can't hear me too.

But I'm not dissing Eternal, I'm just spending my limited game time playing MTGA for the reasons I listed. They are both great games, and while I tried to be realistic when comparng the two I am certainly not endorsing anyone choose one over the other. No one has to, they are two of many CCGs I play and by doing so there always seems to be new cards out for one of them.

I think what actually happened is you recommended MTGA while calling everyone who pointed out flaws with the game an ignorant troll who likes to stick fingers in their ears and refuses to listen to reason. You probably didn't notice all that unnecessary additional baggage you included in your posts when you could have simply ended your case with the strengths of the game and not included your opponent's intelligence in the conversation at all.

The 5th copy problem will be an ever-present blight in the game's economy. The value of a booster pack plummets when you start filling out your collection and begin picking up 5th copies. Since trading is not a thing in this game, when you pick up a fifth common card, that card is instantly converted into vault progress. All 0.1% of it. 5th uncommons are 0.3%. 5th rares are 0.5%. A bloody 5th mythic rare is 1.1%. On average you're not even getting 1/100 value of your card back when you start opening boosters with 5th copies in them. If I started this conversation off with, "the economy is so bad that players are refusing to open booster packs", you'd probably laugh at me. Demand me to show you evidence. If I cited you posts of players who actually decided to not open any boosters because of this problem, you'd brush it away that those players are entitled trolls and are probably lying about it anyway. It's the same reason you refuse to read reddit. Let's compare it to Eternal, that gives you 800 dust back for a 5th legendary card. You need 4 of those to craft a new legendary card compared to the hundred you would need in MTGA. The minimum value of a booster in that game is set high enough that it's never a total waste to open more boosters.

So what does that vault give you after burning so many boosters to open it? 3 uncommon wild cards, 2 rare wild cards, and 1 mythic rare wild card. You have to burn 100 mythic rare cards to get 1 mythic rare wild card back. The problem only gets worse the more common the rarity becomes.

Thus, the price of the booster becomes increasingly expensive for the value it provides, the more boosters you open. The crafting system is literally shooting themselves in the foot by not going the dust route and instead giving you less than 1/100th of the value back for buying too many boosters. Yeah there's absolutely nothing wrong with an economy like that.

I'm not saying people shouldn't open boosters. I still open them despite this. And the devs said they're continuing to look for a solution to this very real problem that's plagued this game since closed beta. It doesn't make the problem nonexistant though.

To me the problem is nonexistant. But then I plasyed paper magic. I played MtGO. I bought my first starter deck, they didn't hand me fifteen of them. So being handed fifteen in MTGA is amazing. Throw in all the boosters and cards I've earned from quests and won in events and your whole "The game economy is horrible because they aren't giving us more free cards fast enough" is truly laughable.

But I thought ths thread was about matchmaking. So perhap you are the one that should leave all their unnecessary baggage out of their posts?

[arejang]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Dysmetria:

Opprinnelig skrevet av arejang:

I think what actually happened is you recommended MTGA while calling everyone who pointed out flaws with the game an ignorant troll who likes to stick fingers in their ears and refuses to listen to reason. You probably didn't notice all that unnecessary additional baggage you included in your posts when you could have simply ended your case with the strengths of the game and not included your opponent's intelligence in the conversation at all.

The 5th copy problem will be an ever-present blight in the game's economy. The value of a booster pack plummets when you start filling out your collection and begin picking up 5th copies. Since trading is not a thing in this game, when you pick up a fifth common card, that card is instantly converted into vault progress. All 0.1% of it. 5th uncommons are 0.3%. 5th rares are 0.5%. A bloody 5th mythic rare is 1.1%. On average you're not even getting 1/100 value of your card back when you start opening boosters with 5th copies in them. If I started this conversation off with, "the economy is so bad that players are refusing to open booster packs", you'd probably laugh at me. Demand me to show you evidence. If I cited you posts of players who actually decided to not open any boosters because of this problem, you'd brush it away that those players are entitled trolls and are probably lying about it anyway. It's the same reason you refuse to read reddit. Let's compare it to Eternal, that gives you 800 dust back for a 5th legendary card. You need 4 of those to craft a new legendary card compared to the hundred you would need in MTGA. The minimum value of a booster in that game is set high enough that it's never a total waste to open more boosters.

So what does that vault give you after burning so many boosters to open it? 3 uncommon wild cards, 2 rare wild cards, and 1 mythic rare wild card. You have to burn 100 mythic rare cards to get 1 mythic rare wild card back. The problem only gets worse the more common the rarity becomes.

Thus, the price of the booster becomes increasingly expensive for the value it provides, the more boosters you open. The crafting system is literally shooting themselves in the foot by not going the dust route and instead giving you less than 1/100th of the value back for buying too many boosters. Yeah there's absolutely nothing wrong with an economy like that.

I'm not saying people shouldn't open boosters. I still open them despite this. And the devs said they're continuing to look for a solution to this very real problem that's plagued this game since closed beta. It doesn't make the problem nonexistant though.

To me the problem is nonexistant. But then I plasyed paper magic. I played MtGO. I bought my first starter deck, they didn't hand me fifteen of them. So being handed fifteen in MTGA is amazing. Throw in all the boosters and cards I've earned from quests and won in events and your whole "The game economy is horrible because they aren't giving us more free cards fast enough" is truly laughable.

But I thought ths thread was about matchmaking. So perhap you are the one that should leave all their unnecessary baggage out of their posts?

Sure, this thread is all about matchmaking, let's completely ignore the 15 other problems with this game. Memory leaks, lack of a friends list, broken economy, nonstop disconnects, bugs with the ranking system, 5th copy problem. It's all unncessary baggage that nobody who's playing this game needs to be aware of, all the while insulting anyone who disagrees with you is absolutely relevant to the topic at hand. When comparing my "baggage" to yours, I'm willing to wager mines is actually useful information, while yours...is just angry.

But it's fine that you're willing to forgive all of that. My post isn't for you anyway. It's for anyone else who's thinking about playing MTGA. The matchmaking system is the least of their worries. They take your money, and literally reduce its in-game value by 1/100. No other game does that. Not even Hearthstone. And that's an intentional feature of this game, not one of the many infrustructural problems it also suffers.

[Daltaine]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Meventh:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Dysmetria:

With ten starter decks and dozens of free boosters and random cards given to you the first week alone you can easily make a deck you can do well with, even before you craft the multiple mythic/legendaries/planeswalkers/rares they give you free crafts off right off the bat you want to make it better.

It seems like you work for them Kappa... I don't get why you should praise mtga so much, it's a nice game, a good one but yea, that's it. Economy? Not so great, just good, manageable. I don't get the point to "do well" with the cards "they give us"... Man, ofc I can "do well" with a dumb white weenie... you need a bunch of common 2 drops, some combat trick and 4x History of Benalia and you are done. Yes, ofc you will win some ranked games...but then? Do you think I will get more cards and more money? Nope. The moment I go playing a competitive event I'll find a good deck and I will 100% be destroyed. Post side vs Control with a budget aggro dumb potato deck... seems legit. You either play meta decks built in the right way or just waste your time in bronze ranked, where you can indeed find some new player to smash with white weenie (or boros or merfolks, same stuff) and that's it. The only gold income will be with daily and weekly quests and that's why mtga economy for a free to play player is <<< Eternal economy...

Surely for new players you would expect to only have a chance in draft and sealed and not constructed events. What does Eternal do that makes it easier to get money outside of daily and weekly events? The tutorial is painfully long so I gave up. They seemingly have done nothing to alleviate Magic's main issue (copying the mana system) so I'm just not sure why to play the less popular game if it's not improving on it's competitors main weakness.

On the first day of MTGA I had a pretty low win rate but a couple days later I was winning 90% of games with a Blue/Black control deck.

[arejang]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Mike:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Meventh:

It seems like you work for them Kappa... I don't get why you should praise mtga so much, it's a nice game, a good one but yea, that's it. Economy? Not so great, just good, manageable. I don't get the point to "do well" with the cards "they give us"... Man, ofc I can "do well" with a dumb white weenie... you need a bunch of common 2 drops, some combat trick and 4x History of Benalia and you are done. Yes, ofc you will win some ranked games...but then? Do you think I will get more cards and more money? Nope. The moment I go playing a competitive event I'll find a good deck and I will 100% be destroyed. Post side vs Control with a budget aggro dumb potato deck... seems legit. You either play meta decks built in the right way or just waste your time in bronze ranked, where you can indeed find some new player to smash with white weenie (or boros or merfolks, same stuff) and that's it. The only gold income will be with daily and weekly quests and that's why mtga economy for a free to play player is <<< Eternal economy...

Surely for new players you would expect to only have a chance in draft and sealed and not constructed events. What does Eternal do that makes it easier to get money outside of daily and weekly events? The tutorial is painfully long so I gave up. They seemingly have done nothing to alleviate Magic's main issue (copying the mana system) so I'm just not sure why to play the less popular game if it's not improving on it's competitors main weakness.

On the first day of MTGA I had a pretty low win rate but a couple days later I was winning 90% of games with a Blue/Black control deck.

If you're interested in playing eternal, I would recommend to start with gauntlet (it's a free to enter mode where you play against an AI for gold) and do the easier daily quests (play a red card rather than win with a red deck). When you save up enough gold, look up a tier list and do drafts to expand your collection quickly. I recommend this to everyone starting out in any card game. Winning won't be guaranteed. That said, I found no problems winning in both eternal and mtga with completely new accounts with zero monetary investment. You'll find that eternal almost drowns you in packs. You get a pack for winning your first game every day. another pack for any gold or diamond chests you open. All silver chests have a 19% chance to upgrade to a gold chest and you open 4 of these through your daily cycle and through gauntlet, you can farm more of these as well. I don't think you'll be lacking resources as you play this game. You'll very quickly have enough for a decent budget deck.

You're already winning in mtga, so I won't give any deck recommendations there. For eternal, look up eternal war cry. It's a deck database for you to look up decks. Sir rhino has a bunch of budget decks I still use to win games consistently on ladder. Uses no paid campaign cards. I actually crafted all of the budget ones he posted because they cover every available color, so those quests that require you to win with a certain color is no longer a problem.

Whether you play mtga or eternal, I hope you find a good fun game to play for you.

I'll add a quick note about the mana problem since it's something you'll have to deal with in both games. If you have researched anything about this, you will have seen that deck construction is really important to alleviate this. Both games have means of cycling through your deck to get you the mana you need and it's important that you be mindful of these things when making your deck or choosing one online. An aggressive cheap deck won't need to have so much emphasis on that, but for ramp decks or even midranged decks, you might want to add those land-seeking cards. In eternal, all 5 colors have cheap 1-2 mana cards that will search your deck for additional lands for you. In addition, you will have easy access to "Seek Power" a one mana, colorless card that will also do the same.

[Daltaine]

Opprinnelig skrevet av arejang:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Mike:

Surely for new players you would expect to only have a chance in draft and sealed and not constructed events. What does Eternal do that makes it easier to get money outside of daily and weekly events? The tutorial is painfully long so I gave up. They seemingly have done nothing to alleviate Magic's main issue (copying the mana system) so I'm just not sure why to play the less popular game if it's not improving on it's competitors main weakness.

On the first day of MTGA I had a pretty low win rate but a couple days later I was winning 90% of games with a Blue/Black control deck.

If you're interested in playing eternal, I would recommend to start with gauntlet (it's a free to enter mode where you play against an AI for gold) and do the easier daily quests (play a red card rather than win with a red deck). When you save up enough gold, look up a tier list and do drafts to expand your collection quickly. I recommend this to everyone starting out in any card game. Winning won't be guaranteed. That said, I found no problems winning in both eternal and mtga with completely new accounts with zero monetary investment. You'll find that eternal almost drowns you in packs. You get a pack for winning your first game every day. another pack for any gold or diamond chests you open. All silver chests have a 19% chance to upgrade to a gold chest and you open 4 of these through your daily cycle and through gauntlet, you can farm more of these as well. I don't think you'll be lacking resources as you play this game. You'll very quickly have enough for a decent budget deck.

You're already winning in mtga, so I won't give any deck recommendations there. For eternal, look up eternal war cry. It's a deck database for you to look up decks. Sir rhino has a bunch of budget decks I still use to win games consistently on ladder. Uses no paid campaign cards. I actually crafted all of the budget ones he posted because they cover every available color, so those quests that require you to win with a certain color is no longer a problem.

Whether you play mtga or eternal, I hope you find a good fun game to play for you.

I'll add a quick note about the mana problem since it's something you'll have to deal with in both games. If you have researched anything about this, you will have seen that deck construction is really important to alleviate this. Both games have means of cycling through your deck to get you the mana you need and it's important that you be mindful of these things when making your deck or choosing one online. An aggressive cheap deck won't need to have so much emphasis on that, but for ramp decks or even midranged decks, you might want to add those land-seeking cards. In eternal, all 5 colors have cheap 1-2 mana cards that will search your deck for additional lands for you. In addition, you will have easy access to "Seek Power" a one mana, colorless card that will also do the same.

Ok yeah I see they have copied the Elder Scroll legends game modes. I think also the 75 deck size put me off but I guess if it's easier to get lots of packs that should make up for needing more good cards.

[Captain_Narol]

They didn't copied Elder Scroll Legends, they also made it and used the same templates for many aspects of both games.

You don't copy your own work, you re-use it in your next productions.

[arejang]

I feel like they did a good job keeping the identities of the two games unique. Legends limited mode is much more like hearthstone arena than eternal's draft.
Legends story campaigns I personally think are better, with superficial choices affecting the win conditions of the next game. Not to mention that added hard modes to everything for the challenge, something eternal could benefit from.
Gauntlet, I personally think is better than legend's grind mode. I forget the name. Gold is just more useful than dust.
And of course the reward system in eternal is unparalleled.

Right now, I hear legends is a mess due to the new client by sparkypants. I called it when this was first announced, but I also expect them to rebound and eventually get better.

[Unembellished Genius]

Lmao at people actually trying to have a discussion with Dysmetria. He's a troll that doesn't know how to have a talk to people without insulting them. He's the biggest Eternal fan boy there is.

[Captain_Narol]

Apparently, you didn't followed closely the discussion here, Tank.

Dysmetria changed horse and is now focused on supporting Mtg Arena rather than Eternal, that he even dismissed once here as a mere "Magic Clone".

IMHO Eternal improves a lot on Magic's core mecanisms, adapting them to digital play, and gets rid of all the bad stuff that got added to Magic over time (notably Planewalkers and Vehicules, that have been plaguing Magic since they got thrown in the mix).

So i t's not a clone from my point of view, it's an evolution.

[Dysmetria]

No one really needs to follow these discussions. Inevitably once I tell people they are wrong and why the disussion soon turns to me.

[Captain_Narol]

It's interesting discussions at the core, but they won't go far if people don't listen to each other and are convinced from the start that they are the only one to have valid points and that everyone else is telling nonsense.

Anyway, appreciating a game is something very subjective, it's a matter of personal taste for a good part.

[Dysmetria]

I appreceate each and every one of the dozens of CCGs/TCGs I've played over the years for their strengths and weaknesses. Some just have a shorter shelf life.

But if you are choosing one over the other based solely on what they will give you for free in the long term then you aren't really choosing it because you appreciate the game.