Brake system explain please ?

[wolfe]

Having never played a train game such as this, im utterly confused on the various brake systems and how they work, is there a indepth explaination on this or could someone kindly explain it to me please

[BUD LIGHT SELTZER]

so basically for starters just worry about the train brake, press and hold : or ; to release and then " or ' to activate. unfortunately you cant actively see how much percentage you are using on the HUD like in TS17 you can use the psi gauge on the hud but thats more complicated so i would recomend for starters staying in first person and looking at the red brake lever, all the way to the left is off or release and all the way to the right is emergency (DO NOT GO ABOVE 98% as you will trigger emergency which will completely halt your loco and is really bad for the loco itself). To get the timing right will just take shear practice as there are many factors. So what i said isint very detailed at all there is much more to learn but its practically the same as TS17 jsut a different HUD so i would recomend watching some tutorials for TS17 if you cant find any TSW ones. just search something like "train simulator how to brake american diesel"

[wolfe]

Nice, i did go look for some tuts on TSW but didt think of TS17 so will check it out,

Im glad we dont have huds so to speak, i much prefer to look at dials, but yea, think its just getting used to the delay of the brakes working

[Rudolf Jan]

Originally posted by wolfe:

Having never played a train game such as this, im utterly confused on the various brake systems and how they work, is there a indepth explaination on this or could someone kindly explain it to me please

There is a tutorial on the brake systems, but it is a bit short and not very clear into my opinion.

[dave]

The short version. (As I understand things)
Train brake. Your main braking system which you will use most of the time. This applies brakes equally to every wagon in your train.
Engine Break. An emergency brake, which applies to just the locomotive. In all my years of train simming I have never used it.
Dynamic brake. OK I am not sure as to the actual mechanics behind how the dynamic brake works. As I understand it, it uses the braking part of the phrase Brake Horse Power. That is it is using the engine to slow the train. This is used to apply a 'non-contact' braking effect and is used for a long downhill stretch where the constant use of 'contact brakes' would risk them overheating and risking a fire or the brake pads wearing out quickly and the driver then risks loosing all the brakes.
In the original Train Sim you didn't have to use the dynamic brakes as over heating and brake fade were not modeled. I have not played CSX enough yet to know if that is modeled in the new game. However, if you want to try to drive your trains correctly you should use the dynamic brakes on those long downhills, with the occasional brief use of the main train brakes now and then.

[[HYST] Dizzy]

dave got it right.

Dynamic brakes is a little complicated. So the diesel engine in the train is powers a generator, and that generator powers the wheels via motors called traction motors. When dynamic brakes are applied, the traction motors are turned from motors to generators. So basically the forward motion of the train creats electricity. This power is routed to big resistors. By resisting the current that the traction motors produce slows down the speed of the motors. There by causing a brakeing action. It's important to note that dynamic brakes wont stop a train.

[ExpertNewbie]

Independent brakes: these brakes are only on the locomotive itself. You can set any pressure level (the 'strength' of the brakes) you want. There is also the option to bail-off, which rapidly releases the brakes. In the real world this is usually used to reduce slack in the cars that the train is pulling, but in the sim it's just a helpful way to quickly release your brakes.

Automatic brakes: these brakes exist on every car in the consist (the long line of cars being pulled by a train). By default, each car has its brakes fully applied and requires air pressure to push the brakes apart and release them. This is so that if a coupler breaks off, the cars will lose pressure and the brakes will apply automatically. The air pressure is generated from the locomotive and is sent down the line until it reaches the end of the consist. In the real world, this takes some time to happen, so the cars in front will brake faster than the cars at the end. In the sim, it appears that they all brake at the same time (though this is just my guess). One thing to keep in mind is that you can't partially release the automatic brakes without completely resetting the system, you can only apply more. For example, if you hold it at 50% braking power, you can't reduce it to 20% without releasing the brakes completely, then going to 20%. But you can go from 50% to 70% no problem.

Dynamic brakes: basically a train's analogy to engine braking in a car. The wheels are connected to a motor that generates electricity by spinning. Because it takes energy to spin the motor, that energy is reduced from the wheels. The wheel's energy is split between the wheel and the motor, so the motor is stealing energy away from the wheel, thus slowing the train down. This saves wear and tear and brake fade on the automatic brakes because the electricity generated by the dynamic brakes is dissipated by the loco, which is much more efficient than doing it on the brake cylinder. In order to activate the dynamic brakes, the reverser must be set to forward or reverse and the throttle must be at idle. You cannot have the throttle and dynamic braking on at the same time.

[ThicKawkFillsTheSpots]

On the SD 645's, or 710's, or any 'old' loco with 26L, LU, & LUM, & 30ACW Airbrake system
Left Gauge: White Needle=Equalizing Res Pressure, Red Needle= #2 Main Res Pressure
Right Gauge: White Needle= Brake Pipe or Trainline Pressure, Red Needle= Brake Cylinder Pressure.
When ER and BP are at 90psi; with a fully charged train "trainbrakes" are fully release.
As you move from Min Reduction to Full service reduction on the Automatic Brake Handle, ER and BP with decrease from 90 to 67-62PSI, which in return will gradually increase the braking effort on each car in the train, as well as increase Brake cylinder pressure on the locomotive(10-65PSI~ Brake Cyl. Press in real world). Bail off is used to release the locomotive brakes but not the train brakes in any Automatic Brake service reduction scenario.


More complicated but start with the basics

[wolfe]

Thanks for the indepth explanation, makes so much more sense now,

So dynamic brakes to hold your speed down a gradient, and automatic brakes to bring the loco and carts to a stop,

If im driving the loco by itself then the independant brakes would be ok to use

Im guessing the big wheels you turn are like parking brakes ? would you have to release those on every cart in real life ?

[dave]

Can I add a question on brakes too.
In Train Sim when you start to apply breaks you start to apply brakes on some trains there was a phase called 'Self Lapping' Any idea what this is?

[dave]

Originally posted by wolfe:

Thanks for the indepth explanation, makes so much more sense now,

So dynamic brakes to hold your speed down a gradient, and automatic brakes to bring the loco and carts to a stop,

If im driving the loco by itself then the independant brakes would be ok to use

Im guessing the big wheels you turn are like parking brakes ? would you have to release those on every cart in real life ?

Yup that's about it. Even when driving just a loco never bothered with the independant break. As I understand things it is still the same mechanical parts that are used, it's not a different set of brakes.
As for the dynamic brake, another way to think about it. The end result is the same as you shifting down gear when driving a car or truck down a steep hill. It adds automotive friction to the wheels. It won't stop you, well not very efficiantly stop you. But will stop your train gathering momentum fast. The other thing to remember. Like the independent brake, the dynamic system only applies to the locomotive and not the rest of the train.
Under Train Sim, you had to apply it gently as you could get derailments as the rest of the train rcan run into your loco, especially if you have a high speed to start with. I'm not sure if this is actually the case or, shall we say, bad modelling on the games part.

There is a bit of a 'dark art' to using D-brakes correctly. I have found the following to work well under the original game.
1. Apply the dynamic brake early, I tend to apply them as my train starts to crest a long down hill.
2. You also have to let the system 'prime', so initially just crack the D-brakes open a fraction, then wait a few seconds. You will know when they come into effect as your engine noice will change quite dramatically, honest you can't miss it, then just apply a touch at a time.
3. The D-brake slows the acceleration, so use your main brakes to reduce speed now and then to actually kill speed.

As I said before, this is how it works with the original game. I have not played CSX enough yet to know if the same physics apply.

Oh, and one more thing that I forgot. Welcome to the world of Train Simming. You will find that it's a bit like playing chess. Easy to learn how to do things, hard to do things right. Especially when the end of your train is a mile or so behind you and you are dragging a 'heavy' through The Rockies. Then the fun starts

[ExpertNewbie]

Originally posted by dave:

Can I add a question on brakes too.
In Train Sim when you start to apply breaks you start to apply brakes on some trains there was a phase called 'Self Lapping' Any idea what this is?

Self lapping is when the brakes hold their current pressure. In my earlier post, I said that you can increase the brakes, but not decrease them until you reset the system. The brake lever can be thought of as how fast you're releasing air pressure, and thus increasing the brakes. The more you turn it, the faster the brakes will apply. When you turn it to self lapping, it prevents any additional air from escaping and holds the brakes at the current pressure they're at.

[ThicKawkFillsTheSpots]

self lapping is when the air brake system will maintance the present air brake command and compensate for air brake leakage. When the the 26C (Automatic brake handle) is set to Cut-out, which you will see on your trailing unit, the unit is is now not in self lapping phase. Engineers as well as the mechanical department uses this to check trainline leakage before the train is set to depart. But again this game will not simulate leakaged as of right now. To check independant leakage you need to cutout the MU2A which is located on the bottom side of the control stand

[ThicKawkFillsTheSpots]

Also inorder to use Dynamic brake properly, place in 'Set-up' for 10 seconds before you apply them.

[Delfino]

Dynamic braking is used mostly to save the brake pads - during dynamic braking the pure electromagnetic force brakes without any friction invovled. And heat instead of the pads is released on the resistors. That is why they are used on long descends.

Independent brake can be used in many situations. Most obvious is loco driving alone. Another thing is while cheking the train brakes - when you release them you want your independent brake to be aplied. You can use it also to precisely stop a train from a slow motion as you can apply and release it gradualy, the train brake has to be fully released and it has a big lag, so you can't aim well with it.

There are also some other even more complicated situations. Let's imagine you have a very long train which you want to slow down. After aplying the train brake in some time all the cars are braking. Now you want to release the brake. If you do so - it will be released first on the loco and the first cars while the cars at the end will still be braking (it's because you are using air pressure to give orders to the brakes and it takes time for the air wave to reach the end of a long train). Therefore with the end cars braking they are stretching the whole train and you are at risk of tearing apart the couplings. Therefore it would be safer to first apply the independent brake, then release the the train brake and only after it's fully released on the last cars, release the independent brake.

Of course wheter to use this procedure depends on lots of factors. Sometimes it's just safer to let the train stop instead of releasing the brakes while still rolling.

[Judy Garland]

Originally posted by Drake:

so basically for starters just worry about the train brake, press and hold : or ; to release and then " or ' to activate. unfortunately you cant actively see how much percentage you are using on the HUD like in TS17 you can use the psi gauge on the hud but thats more complicated so i would recomend for starters staying in first person and looking at the red brake lever, all the way to the left is off or release and all the way to the right is emergency (DO NOT GO ABOVE 98% as you will trigger emergency which will completely halt your loco and is really bad for the loco itself). To get the timing right will just take shear practice as there are many factors. So what i said isint very detailed at all there is much more to learn but its practically the same as TS17 jsut a different HUD so i would recomend watching some tutorials for TS17 if you cant find any TSW ones. just search something like "train simulator how to brake american diesel"

Can you wear brakes out in this sim? I hope so, I like the realism.