Why buys this VS free deluxe version ?!

[derSanitoeter]

Why should we buy this if there is a free deluxer version since years ?

And there is even the well known free version in TDOT!

[Crashed]

Because this is legal?

[Smaxx]

The version included in The Day of the Tentacle is as legal as this one?

[Yujah]

In fact, this may be the illegal version it seems.

Certainly Lucasfilm/Disney holds copyright on the game-data, but they do not on ScummVM. ScummVM is copyrighted by individual authors and released under the GPL version 2 license. The most significant term of which is having to publish any changes to ScummVM they ended up distributing, but even if none, certainly another one of which is that they must make prominently clear to recipients of the game that part of it is licensed under the GPL; that as such said recipient can obtain that part's source code.

Don't get me wrong: I haven't bought this -- and will not until I know this to not in fact be an illegal version -- and as such prominent GPL notices may be present on the product you receive when you do buy; I don't know. But certainly there's nothing in that Disney EULA that Steam presents us before buying, which may in fact already be a license violation; not sure. If Disney violates the GPL version 2 they are illegally distributibuting ScummVM, making this the illegal version.

[Crashed]

Originally posted by Smaxx:

The version included in The Day of the Tentacle is as legal as this one?

I think you are mistaking the higher resolution enhanced DOS version with the unofficial version which I believe ended up with the authors disappearing after a C&D.

The unofficial "Deluxe" version has nothing to do with any SCUMM games, as mentioned here:

Originally posted by https://www.scummvm.org/faq/:

2.3. When will Maniac Mansion Deluxe be supported?
The short answer: not anytime soon. The long answer: This game is a fan-made replica of the original Maniac Mansion. It is not the same game as Maniac Mansion Enhanced, which we do support. It features improved music, sound, 256-colors graphics and reworked game interface. It was made using the Adventure Game Studio which is a free, and now open-source graphics adventures engine. There are Windows, Linux and FreeBSD versions of the engine. This engine is not currently supported by ScummVM and a lot of work would be required to support it.

According to a chat on the ScummVM IRC I am in the middle of as I type, if the ScummVM binaries are distributed unmodified in this package it should still be legal.

[Yujah]

Originally posted by __:

According to a chat on the ScummVM IRC I am in the middle of as I type, if the ScummVM binaries are distributed unmodified in this package it should still be legal.

As far the GPL itself is concerned that is not true unless the fact that GPL-licensed software IS being distributed is communicated in the sense of a source code offer. See section 3 of the GPL 2, as available at

https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/blob/master/COPYING

A simple mention of the GPL even without such an explicit offer would go some ways in alleviating things but, while once again noting that there might as far as I know BE one after buying the game, if NOTHING is communicated than it's from a legal standpoint a very clear license violation, making Disney's distribution of ScummVM illegal. Nothing being communicated before buying it may already be as well in a strict sense, since the Disney EULA that is presented and is being agreed to is definitely an additional restriction in the GPL sense.

[Tony Soprano]

Simply put, you should not buy this. It isn't even using a working version of the emulator and has mouse issues (which has proper ScummVM fixes if you take a minute to look and were posted elsewhere, but why should the consumer have to fix this themselves on day 1?). Whoever the publisher gathered to put this together clearly didn't know what they were doing or have any care for the game - no extra stuff that would have taken less than a day to toss in and the game doesn't even work right. Do not buy.

[Yujah]

If somebody could confirm that there is some mention of ScummVM and/or GPL after buying it, that it is as such not an illegal version altogether, I will in fact probably buy it even if only to show support for these kinds of re-releases. Certainly making it be ScummVM based is technically a great decision.

I do expect I'll wait a few hours for the winter sale to commence...

[Crashed]

Originally posted by Yujah:

If somebody could confirm that there is some mention of ScummVM and/or GPL after buying it, that it is as such not an illegal version altogether, I will in fact probably buy it even if only to show support for these kinds of re-releases. Certainly making it be ScummVM based is technically a great decision.

I do expect I'll wait a few hours for the winter sale to commence...

Someone on the ScummVM IRC bought the game (a developer?) and confirmed that they just unzipped the package, complete with the COPYING file, and concluded it is legal. They also said this package has both the low-res and enhanced editions of the game.

[Yujah]

Thanks much. Have the game as part of the original Day of the Tentacle as well as the remaster but I'll rebuy then -- even if not necessarily replay. Zak McCracken is the only one of these old SCUMM games I've never played: let's hope that'll come next.

[Mr. Monochrome [Hood Certified]]

Originally posted by the junk food kid:

Simply put, you should not buy this. It isn't even using a working version of the emulator and has mouse issues (which has proper ScummVM fixes if you take a minute to look and were posted elsewhere, but why should the consumer have to fix this themselves on day 1?). Whoever the publisher gathered to put this together clearly didn't know what they were doing or have any care for the game - no extra stuff that would have taken less than a day to toss in and the game doesn't even work right. Do not buy.

If everything in our world was expected to work right off the bat without any issues then 'troubleshooting' wouldn't be part of the vernacular.

It's not that the consumer should have to fix the mouse issue, it's that the consumer should be able to. It's a simple fix if you bother to search the issue online or through the discussion forum. If you can't be bothered to do so then why do you even own a computer? I'm not saying everyone can pop off a side panel and troubleshoot components, but you should be able to do more then just "check your email".

What is this extra stuff you're talking about? The game was made back in 1987, computers were still pretty much in their infancy. What did you want? Cards? Speech? For an 87' game? I don't see the logic in this "extra stuff". Plus it wouldn't be MM anymore if they added new content to the game itself. Yeah, steam cards are nice or any steam perk, there also a gimmick.

[minirop]

Originally posted by Yujah:

In fact, this may be the illegal version it seems.

Certainly Lucasfilm/Disney holds copyright on the game-data, but they do not on ScummVM. ScummVM is copyrighted by individual authors and released under the GPL version 2 license. The most significant term of which is having to publish any changes to ScummVM they ended up distributing, but even if none, certainly another one of which is that they must make prominently clear to recipients of the game that part of it is licensed under the GPL; that as such said recipient can obtain that part's source code.

Don't get me wrong: I haven't bought this -- and will not until I know this to not in fact be an illegal version -- and as such prominent GPL notices may be present on the product you receive when you do buy; I don't know. But certainly there's nothing in that Disney EULA that Steam presents us before buying, which may in fact already be a license violation; not sure. If Disney violates the GPL version 2 they are illegally distributibuting ScummVM, making this the illegal version.

the GPL only obliges Lucasfilm/Disney to provide the source code of ScummVM if someone asks. If they really just used the binary available on ScummVM.org then it's totally legal.

[Mr. Monochrome [Hood Certified]]

Originally posted by minirop:

the GPL only obliges Lucasfilm/Disney to provide the source code of ScummVM if someone asks. If they really just used the binary available on ScummVM.org then it's totally legal.

Exactly. They're not selling ScummVM, they're selling Maniac Mansion using ScummVM to run it. If someone wants the source code from ScummVM they have to give it out, if someone wants the source code to Maniac Mansion their SOL.

Sierra used DOSBox with the last Space Quest collection, which is perfectly fine because again they aren't selling DOSBox, they're selling Space Quest.

I don't see why people think this is illegal when it's not.

[Yujah]

What Disney needs to do is spelled out in section 3 of the GPL, the document I linked to above. Read it.

If source code to a GPL component is not already provided Disney needs to "accompany [the game] with a written offer" to provide such. Before buying this game there is no indication of a GPL component whatsoever, no indication of any such offer, whence I inquired as to whether or not there was after buying it. Seeing as how the full GPL verbiage seems to be in place after buying I myself consider this good enough even without an explicit offer; the GPL is well-known enough to those who care anyway.

What remains is that you upon buying agree to the Disney EULA which among other things forbids "decompiling, reverse-engineering [etc.]" without Disney making any distinction between the game-data and the game-engine, the GPL licensed ScummVM. At the very least appears to be imposing by GPL forbidden additional restrictions also on a GPL licensed work.

I once again do not care about not having an explicit offer of source code, nor do I care about that last point; even if it in a strict legal sense may be at odds with Disney's right to distribute, it is clearly not enforceable, them not holding copyright over ScummVM -- so I'm fine. But don't just say "totally legal" without apparently even having read the actual ScummVM license.

I will by the way leave it at this; everything's been said anyway.

[RattikusMaximus]

Originally posted by Yujah:

If somebody could confirm that there is some mention of ScummVM and/or GPL after buying it, that it is as such not an illegal version altogether, I will in fact probably buy it even if only to show support for these kinds of re-releases. Certainly making it be ScummVM based is technically a great decision.

I do expect I'll wait a few hours for the winter sale to commence...

When the game loads up it flashes ScummVM at the very start.

[Crashed]

Originally posted by Rawr™:

Originally posted by Yujah:

If somebody could confirm that there is some mention of ScummVM and/or GPL after buying it, that it is as such not an illegal version altogether, I will in fact probably buy it even if only to show support for these kinds of re-releases. Certainly making it be ScummVM based is technically a great decision.

I do expect I'll wait a few hours for the winter sale to commence...

When the game loads up it flashes ScummVM at the very start.

It has a ScummVM folder with all COPYING files intact.