Trial of the Mages

[Ubera_Amans]

I have now played through the trial of the mages... twice.

I have a few notes.. Its fun :)
I beat it first try and got 3 prizes...
I feel like you should get 1 prize each time you complete it and each attempt should be harder.
12 rounds is good for one prize.
If it got harder each time, give the soulbead, then the rune, then the robe.
If it is the same challenge, let them choose which prize :)

The time guy... he said 10:00
I beat it in 4:07...
so maybe lower that time to 5:00
Or an even neater idea;
If the challenge gets harder, take the hardest challenge time (the one for the robe) and subtract 10-30 seconds. there is no reason to make the challenge harder at this point.
If the challenge does not get harder, just take the fastest time the player made and subtract 10-30 seconds.
This way you are challenging the players skill and style.

Another note, make the enemies spawn around zia.
I ran into 2 annoying things:
1. Sometimes I started a round with an emey on top of me
2. If I could manage to be on the outside edge when it started, it was much easier to defeat the round

Starting in the middle was quite challenging, so if the round started either teleporting Zia to the center at the beginning, or the have spawn points offset by Zias location (which could be bad if she was on an edge, you would have to make sure they don't spawn outside the room borders)

One time I got stuck between 2 skeleton bombers, they took turns blowing me up and I never got to stand... I spammed my ego-move to finally get out.
That is not bad, I thought for a second I would actually lose more than half my life... but I did not, it was fun. ;)

[Alex DaGiovanni]

I share LocksmithArmy point of view. Battling waves of enemies is really really fun because at this point of the game all we really want to do is hurl tons of magic at tons of enemies, but right now the Trials is a little too easy.

I went in there with a 75% full hp bar and no mana charms. Beat the 12 waves. Got the three prizes. Did it again in 5 minutes or so, got the last prize. It's cool, and I might do it again for fun, but it could be a little more challenging.

[CChancey]

Hey Locksmith and Alex!

Thanks for the feedback on the new feature!

- Chris, for the Mages of Mystralia Team

[byronmiller]

Yeah, agreed. I am by no means good at this game, I keep getting stuck on puzzles and had to use my scarab against the Queen but I beat all 12 rounds without really breaking a sweat. (This is before unlocking any of the elements, so I wasn't really at full potential.)

I'm ok with that, it felt like an achievement, but if that's the end of the Trials then I'm a little underwhelmed.

(More generally: enjoying the game, beautiful scenery!)

[Elrohir]

I disagree completely on everything here. I think the difficulty is good because its not too easy for you to do until you have at least a decent set of runes (you say its before unlocking elements but thats pretty late game, you get the elements and then your basically done other than the final battle ). And once you get the runes to make it easy you should be far enough in the game that you earned those rewards.

As for the time, again to finish that quick you are late enough in the game that it becomes easy, but i wanna see you try to get all the rewards in 1 try (well 2 because you cant get the last reward on the first try) as soon as it opens up, without exploring the world to find the good runes. It isnt that easy then (you may be able to complete it but it definitely wont take you 5 minutes then), and obviously its going to be easy mid-late game when zia is a powerful mage harnessing a mastery of celestial magic, the most powerful magic and this is a challenge that the lore says many mages go to in order to relax (i think thats what the loading screen said). If the people much weaker than zia choose to use this as a relaxation thing then it cant very well be something nearly impossible for zia.

[CChancey]

Hey everyone!

Although there is truth that since you've all been accustomed to the game, the trials of the mage might seem easier than it actually is like Elrohir said, we still think that it's important to keep our endgame players entertained and there will certainly be an added challenge in the Archmage mode. :)

Thanks as always for the feedback, it's a pleasure to read it all!

- Chris, for the Mages of Mystralia Team

[Elrohir]

I might also point out that if its not fun for you, a factor might be that you simply arent allowing it to be fun. You say that you did it in 5 minutes, which implies that you probably have spells built to dispatch enemies as quickly as possible. Maybe try making spells that are designed for funner gameplay.

When i went through i finished in about 8:30 on my timed try, and id say about a minute and a half to two minutes of that was me making a mistake and not realizing it (forgot to switch from a fire spell on fire resistent big goblins, couldnt figure out why they refused to die, im an idiot). The other reason that it took so long was that i like to mess around and play with my enemies. I normally run around in circles setting up a trap (rain creo) and let the people chasing me run into it. When thats done i individually beat down the guys throwing things at me, the whole time trying to dodge their friends attacks. Not the fastest approach, if i wanted to just kill everyone off right away it would be a lot quicker, but i have fun messing around like this and a giant room filled with progressively bigger enemies to mess with is a lot of fun, even if they cant touch me more than once or twice while im in there.

[Ubera_Amans]

Not sure when the trial opens... but it is the 'trial' of the mages not the mage 'spa'. The ones that use it to relax are masters. It should be a late game challenge that you would do to beef up for the final fight.
I used mostly the fireball that explodes with electricity... and made it rain fire, so yes I could dispatch many enemies with my firestorm. And as for making it hard for myself, why? I like to defeat challenges, not limit myself to make it hard.

I beleive if the ai ran from stationary spells (like the firestorm) instead of just stood in em, it would make the whole game harder.

[Elrohir]

Pretty sure it opens around the time you come back from getting the skyshard (i may be wrong about the specific time but i know its early in the game because i went back to haven often and checked that place each time, it was early in the game when the dialogue changed from "its closed" to "i should try"). And as i said, by late game not only are you a master, but you are a master of the most powerful type of magic, celestial magic, and are leagues ahead of the other masters who use it to relax. Going there at the end of the game and expecting a challenge is like being a full grown college educated adult going to a first grade spelling bee and expecting it to be difficult.

[Elrohir]

Also im not saying that you should be making the game hard on yourself. Play the game how you want to. What im saying is if you are mid to late game, and your zia is a master that is leagues above other mages, then you shouldnt be complaining about the difficulty of something that is there to test aspiring mages.

And if you doubt the power of celestial magic in comparison to normal magic, remember that the first real boss (twiggs i think his name was) was considered so powerful to mages that they couldnt believe you really beat him. The fact that the trial is so much more difficult than him, and he was considered something worth atleast an adept mage, the trial is probably pretty well balanced.

[benubird]

You seem to be missing the point: The trial is not there to test aspiring mages. There are no aspiring mages other than zia, because this is a *video game*! The trial is there to be fun for the players, not for the non-existent other mages - and therefore saying it's too easy because the character is so powerful, is rather missing the point.

Asking players to deliberately limit themselves for the sake of fun doesn't work. I don't recally the article offhand, but I remember reading something about it a while ago - some FPS developer built in a bunch of cool items and a single insta-kill one, and they discovered that their players complained that the game was boring. They removed the insta-kill gun, and suddenly it started getting much better reviews, with players saying it was now fun.

Telling people that if they think it's too easy it means they are playing wrong doesn't solve anything, it just annoys people.

[Ubera_Amans]

Originally posted by benubird:

The trial is there to be fun for the players, therefore saying it's too easy because the character is so powerful, is rather missing the point.

Asking players to deliberately limit themselves for the sake of fun doesn't work.

how do you thumbs up a comment? verry well put.

[Elrohir]

Lore-wise it is there to be a test for aspiring mages. And your right, zia is the only aspiring mage, so go try it as the aspiring mage zia rather than ultimate wizard zia. It will be fun and challenging when you are not the most powerful being on the planet.

[Ubera_Amans]

Elrohir, basically, you are saying that nothing can be challenging for a late game zia...
Or is it the literally the game designers could not make it challenging?
Either train of thought is faulty... because they can make challenging puzzles or creative fights. And an invincible unstoppable player becomes boring.
The point is to make things challenging and fun even inspite of the characters flexibility. Being able to modify and change spells at will is a tough cookie to out program, but they can make it tough on the godlike zia.

[Elrohir]

Im not saying nothing can be challenging for late game zia. Im saying something designed to test mages abilities cant be challenging for late game zia as she is way beyond even the best mage.

Its possible to make things that are challenging for zia, and it can make sense, but for this, a challenge designed to test people who are way below late game zia's skill level, would make no sense if it was something only zia could accomplish. If it were something that a master of celestial magic has difficulty with then it would make no sense that this is a trial set up to test mages abilities and the better mages do this for fun. And if the time was near impossible to beat then that would be putting the mage who gives you the time at nearly as powerful in his prime as a master of celestial magic. Celestial magic has been established as way more powerful and amazing than regular magic and for a mage to be at that skill is ridiculous. If it were possible then the mageking would not have bothered risking (and losing) his sanity in order to learn celestial magic if he could be just as strong through normal means.

I don't know about you but i get invested into the stories and lore of games and i dont like when games break their own lore. Making the Trial of Mages a much bigger challenge wouldnt work lore-wise as it would be too difficult for mages and wouldnt make sense as something that tests mages prowes, that is completed by mages and is used for fun by the best.

[Elrohir]

All the people that are complaining that it is too easy go start a new game and see how easy you find it then. I just started a new game to try it, it opens right after you return the skyshard so you wont have much. All i had when i went in where the basic spells and Move, Right, impact, Detonate, and Homing (which is found from exploring but its right next to the rise entrance so it might as well be right in your path). With that as all i had i managed to beat 4 rounds and nearly the 5th on my first try and only get my first reward.