Compliments and Complaints

[michael1153]

First off, I would like to say that it is extremely rewarding to see my favorite game back in the realm of video game offerings. I remember cranking up Mutant league football back in the Sega Genesis days and kept a pretty vigilante eye out ever since, hoping for another iteration of this fantastic game. After a few years, and crowd sourcing websites that seemed to go nowhere, I gave up looking for updates and just on a whim after playing an emulator of the Genesis and the original ML game, searched for news about ML and here I am.

I truly love the game. Beautiful graphics, clean and crisp, the soundtrack is awesome (Belmont-Overstepping is the best one on there) the humor (dont cave in for the crybabies and change it) and everything that has been added to the game from the original with new nasties, stadiums, field hazards etc .

With that being said however, I am finding a lot of things that are highly aggravating and extremely frustrating. More so compounded by my half completed 5th year return to the Mutant League Championship bowl. I have a team that is rated at 96 now. Took a lot of time to build all of these guys up, setting them up and going through playbooks to see what worked the best. My spare time, has been consumed with this game and it was highly rewarding in the early stages of this progress but things have certainly turned ridiculous to say the least in this fifth year run.

1) Three teams seem to have absolutist powers that cannot even be described in one single post and are rated poorly against my team of highly rated players. By highly rated, I mean usually maxed out at 100 across the board or 100 in key areas as well as others as I plink away maxing the other categories out. Those teams are:

• Carinal Sins
• GrimBay Attackers,
• Terror Bay Mutaneers.
  
  I have had multiple times where I have killed the QB for GrimBay (Rogers) and he comes back even I smoked him after the time warp. I killed the guy at least 5 times in one of our early playoff games and its not because of TimeWarp Same happens with other teams who do not have time warp, and I find myself killing the same RB's over and over again. "They are down to one RB" and then suddenly "They are down to two RB's"
  
  All three share one thing in common, and that is no matter how lowly rated their player is or overall rating of the team, they are able to intercept everything I throw when not even being close to the receiver, launch multiple Nasty attacks even after what I assumed, were already used up, and pummel the ref before he even calls a bad call on them. (meaning, I select "Bribe Ref" and without a hint or inclination, call or otherwise, they attack the ref immediately when back on field) cause multitudes of fumbles (sometimes on one play), destroy/kill a player that is rated at 100, had one play and by an opposing player of OR 76 with a low rating of hitting or blitzing. Can my players do the same? Nope. It is like they are rated at 40 and I struggle just trying to make one tackle.
  
  
• End of quarter nail biters
  This just gets absolutely insane and stupid toward the end of a quarter, especially the fourth quarter. No matter what you do, they will force a turnover, run it back to score or thwart your ability to score with magical fumblitis or interceptions. The AI just goes completely HAL mode.
  
  
• Super speed
  Many times, I have used WarpSpeed, only to have a mile long distance between my RB be gobbled up with 3 or more players who "catch up" and display the "turbo" mode multiple times to do that. Can I do that? Nope. Best part is when their player is a low rated player, with speed at nothing higher that 60, low tackle rating, and POOF....they not only caught up to you and tackled you, but caused you to die with one hit, fumble the call, and take it back with your rated 100 defensive players not making a dent in their health or ability to tackle.
  
  
• Repeated Nasties
  This happens quite a bit, but just when you think they have burned both of their nasty plays off, think again. You line up for warp speed, you go running and BAM....ThunderClap-Fumble-Defensive touch down. You know, that same ThunderClap they did not even 5 plays ago? Yup. Its either that one or Bombs Away, which no matter what, always takes out 4 of my guys.
  
  
• The untouchables
  Making things worse, is the inability to tackle anybody with a defensive player at 100 and the opposition player rated at literally anything below 80. No nasties, spot on coverage, spot on blitz, all by a defensive team OR of 100 and.....wow....he's run for 40 yards even after an entire defensive team has pounded the guy and barely has any health gone.
  
  
• Ginormous insecurity
  This one cracks me up. To have a player rated at 100 across the board, be not only tackled with one hit in Ginormous mode, but then make my guy fumble the ball after he has been killed on that one hit, pretty much sums it up as how bad the AI has gotten at this point.
  
  
• The Killing fields
  Having 14 players wiped out that mostly are rated at 100, from a team of low levels that barely has an OR of 74, while they have one, possibly two....killed.....sorry, that is laughable.
  
  
• Wasted Time
  Having spent way too many hours playing the game to build the team up against impossible odds, one would hope that all of that work means something. Unfortunately, trying to level up any player is almost impossible with an out of control AI that seems to know and target that particular person you are working on. Routinely killed, injured, or simply ineffective, I have never swore so much at a game trying to keep the guy on the field alive long enough to gain points. Then when you do gain points, you are severely limited in what you can do as you progress to the point you blow your player budget in cash with one simple click on the category of choice. How the hell can a person progress through the game when you cannot score XP or use some of your winnings to upgrade the guy? Again, I am in the 5th year and have a team OR of 96 but lets be honest here, some of those players took that long just to get to 85.....
  
  
• Where did he go George? Onside Kicks
  This one is probably the most annoying of them all. They decide to kick an onside kick...They kick the ball and....well...where the hell is it? The illumination does not take hold until long after they are basically on top of it after your guy decided to ignore the call because it blends in with literally every field in the game. You simply cannot see the damned thing, get to it in time (which to see the kicking team be on top of the ball before your guy can stop scratching his nuts is hilarity) and off to the races they go. If this is done mostly in the fourth quarter, expect a fumble, dropped ball or immediate death by a low level who then scoops it up and runs it all the way back either tying the game or now ahead of you in points.
  
  Another annoyance, you take a time out to adjust for it because there is no audible. You get lined up for onside kick and they punt. Same can be said for if they are going to kick or punt in a 4th down situation. You take a time out to return or block, they have 4th and 25, and now they come back on the field to throw a deep pass into quad covered coverage and not only catch it but then run it in for a touch down against your hapless 100 rated CBs and Safeties. The receiver again, is far from being even a threat rating or category wise.
  
  
• Magnet Whip
  Ugh...this one guys...it has to be eliminated. To be blitzing, and then get magnet whipped into a guy on your left or right side, tied up and once again, try to throw him off in a blitz just sucks. This is really annoying for players such as myself, who choose to run a blitz player. The blitzing at times is almost impossible and I wonder if the stats even matter such as shedding blocks....because I get tied up, thrown down...cant get loose and generally passed off as if Im using a blitzer who is a low rated scrub instead of the maxed out at 100 player that he is. Running downfield for a kick return is another great instance of this magnet whip analogy. You can be running full boar down the middle and if the guy is anywhere near the concession stand, he will magnet whip you into him, tie you up and there is basically nothing you can do to shake the low level prick off.

These are just some of the problems.....the game crashes a lot. The point system does not reliably work as it should and having to manually do the point system/resurrection twice because for whatever reason, it doesnt save those changes upon exit of that mode....is quite perplexing. As example, multiple times I have made all of those changes, backed out...and then the game crashed. No biggie I think to myself. I can just start the dynasty up again and play the next match...but upon further roster inspection, none of the changes took, and now I have to do it all over again.

Anyway....there is more but this has gone on long enough I think..lol....I mean, I love the game guys...take this only as constructive criticism because as a programmer myself, I know all about bugs and the crap that one has to deal with to get things to work properly.

The fact you guys brought back my favorite game of all time, and did the amazing work that you have done to it....simply awesome and I will be first in line for any other expansion packs or a new release. (hopefully with create a team, character, stadium (think old Madden Franchise Mode series before they ruined the series) Maybe include separate faces for the players instead of generic/same face for all players....etc...

Lots of potential here and you guys have the talent to pull it off. Thanks again for bringing it back and much continued success. I know I will be there supporting ya!

[LogicalEgo]

I have been playing with AI on max difficulty and i have noticed this new "interception" technique the AI does after I have caught the ball. I catch the ball, take 2-3 steps and suddenly they have the ball, like clock work 3-4 times a game.

Dynasty is extremely flawed in its core system. Something I hope that changes with MFL 2 and we see a legacy update for MFL. Not being able to face all the teams with only 3 random per division, no rolling roster updates unless you completely start over (this is terrible and the worst thing about Dynasty).

[michael1153]

Originally posted by LogicalEgo:

I have been playing with AI on max difficulty and i have noticed this new "interception" technique the AI does after I have caught the ball. I catch the ball, take 2-3 steps and suddenly they have the ball, like clock work 3-4 times a game.

Dynasty is extremely flawed in its core system. Something I hope that changes with MFL 2 and we see a legacy update for MFL. Not being able to face all the teams with only 3 random per division, no rolling roster updates unless you completely start over (this is terrible and the worst thing about Dynasty).

Glad to see a reply like yours that encompasses what I was talking about. I honestly thought I would be bombarded (still could happen Im sure) with "Git gud scrub!!"

That behavior you are talking about with the interception....it was really noticeable last night during the two games I played. (I shut it off because I was so damned mad at the game I could not play another) I had used the "Air" formation, threw the deep pass from my 100 rated across the board QB to my primary, 100 rated across the board statistically receiver, and a low level clown half a mile away intercepts the ball even though I plainly seen my guy catch it and start taking the run to glory. Then....to make matters even worse....my primary receiver winds up dead after the "collision" that apparently happened to gain that interception. Its almost like playing NFL2K online with the ol Dreamcast. Lag made things just look absolutely ridiculous.

The fumbles last night though....fresh off the bench, 100 rated RB, gets hammered on by one low level CB. Ball goes flying right into the arms of the defender while magically half their team is already there "blocking" two of my guys from getting the ball because they are tied up in that stupid magnet hold where you cannot do ♥♥♥♥ against the player that has you wrapped up. Finally, one of my defenders rolls up and causes another fumble to which he then gets smacked by one of the guys who had me tied up and another fumble occurs and for two plays after that, it was fumbles back and forth until ultimately, they ran it back for a touch down. 1 minute left in the 2d quarter........I killed two of their guys and they wiped out 12 of my 100 rated players.

Imagine, a rated 72 CB with no redeeming or stand out statistics for intercepting, speed, jumping, brawling, damage or otherwise, not only keeping right there, intercepting, force fumbling, attacking and ultimately killing your 100 rated receiver, but the rated 74 team he plays for, is also wrecking absolute havoc on your 100 rated offense and 96 rated Defense. They were sacking me milliseconds after the ball was hiked too. I think they wound up with 10 sacks total, and of course, each sack meant a dead QB. Amazing that a 100 rated QB can get hit once and die right there coughing up a fumble in the process.

Really makes you wonder why so much time was spent by us trying to improve the ranks of your player with endless games to raise those stats only to be outdone by lackluster player opponents.

Now granted, there are players on opposing teams with a star over their head and have the stats which I rarely question here and there....but my entire team quite literally (albeit about 6) have a star over their head, rated at 100 across every stat you can can configure and they are getting thrown around like the default starter team rated at 45.

I hope they use what you posted and create an update for this version as well as take the suggestions offered by all for the next release, There is a ton of potential for this game and it has the following and fanbase to really take them to the next level.

[michael1153]

I was going to ask as well, is there a feature to export your Dynasty team to be able to use in exhibition matches or other modes of the game?

What I am afraid of is the team that has been built up over all of this time, is forever "forgotten" after completion of Dynasty mode. I have not seen anything regarding this as I am sure not many are even thinking or caring about that facet, but I was a huge fan of the Madden original Franchise series and being able to use that team in pretty much every mode the game offered.

[Mr.RED]

Originally posted by michael1153:

...
...

• End of quarter nail biters
  This just gets absolutely insane and stupid toward the end of a quarter, especially the fourth quarter. No matter what you do, they will force a turnover, run it back to score or thwart your ability to score with magical fumblitis or interceptions. The AI just goes completely HAL mode.
  ...

+1; THANK YOU for saying what I'm sure many players have been frustrated with.
I...have NOT been playing the game long enough to have formed well thought-out criticisms like this yet, BUT I was suspecting this about the A.I.

Originally posted by michael1153:

• Wasted Time
  Having spent way too many hours playing the game to build the team up against impossible odds, one would hope that all of that work means something. Unfortunately, trying to level up any player is almost impossible with an out of control AI ... ...

Dude. TOTALLY agree with this. Part of the problem is THERE IS NO UNDO BUTTON. I think the devs really missed that extra polish on the MANAGEMENT side of Dynasty mode. I was trying to figure out how to assign points and accidentally bought 20 points worth of XP for ...you guessed it, my BEST player, which is the one who doesn't need it. great, now I guess I have to restart my whole dynasty mode just because i mis-clicked (or pressed the wrong button repeatedly, lol, in this case).
But YES, if they could add an undo button, that would be great. AND allow us to import/export dynasty mode save files, ALSO.

Conclusion

Thank you for writing all this up, though. Hopefully the devs will read this. ...and EVEN if they don't fix it for this game, I at least hope they will consider these changes for the sequel.

[Horrible Orbit]

A thread for things we don't want in the sequel, eh? Good idea. Here's mine:

Pass Interference. Oh man... it's the only way the AI can gain offensive yardage. Every couple of plays, every team, every stadium, my defense keeps getting called for it.

I can't tell you how many times the play will be over and I'll be beating on an enemy player, only to have the framerate of my attack (but not the game) slow to a crawl so that the final hit doesn't land. Nearly 50% of enemy players survive by this means, lately, and it's baffling.

The enemy team getting to bribe a ref more often than is allowed by the rules of the game, nearly every game.

Enemy players, especially quarterbacks, some times regaining every lost point of health between plays and getting stuck like that, meaning that I need to either kill them in one play from full HP, or not at all.

My latest dynasty mode playthrough got screwed up in either late season 4 or early season 5 when my cash/score went from massively positive to -35 million and got stuck that way.

The tendency of the AI to hijack my players after the play is over and walk them directly into land mines regardless of direction, whether they're offscreen, etc. really sucks.

The way you have to switch between the A and B button (X360 controls) to navigate the pre-game menu is kinda annoying. Should just be A to confirm like any other game.

Also, OP's comment about the AI's running speed rubber banding so hard it basically destroys the stat system is spot on.

[CrazyMax]

Hello michael1153,

Thank you for the feedback

I'd like to point out that we're small team and we cannot test the game on each and every PC configuration ever made

I'm posting it over and over again, but it seems like people choose to ignore it
Please understand, we cannot fix bug which we're unable to reproduce on our side and crashes are NOT exceptions from this rule.

Originally posted by michael1153:

These are just some of the problems.....the game crashes a lot.

If you're experiencing a crash or game crushing bug, please:

1. Make sure that you're started new Dynasty run after latest roster update. If you decided to ignore warning message and continue current Dynasty run, we cannot help you.
   
2. Send your description of the issue with log and crash dump files to our support email ([e-mail]). Do not know where to find them? Please check this thread (it's a link)

[Horrible Orbit]

No pressure (from me anyway). The sequel is more important to focus on. With any luck, these posts will be the reason these bugs don't appear in it. Wouldn't be fair to ask anyone to take time out of their day to deal with the original game's bugs in the middle of the sequel's development.

[Ross_R]

Originally posted by michael1153:

I honestly thought I would be bombarded (still could happen Im sure) with "Git gud scrub!!"

I mean, it's tempting. Given that your post is 2022, and I've started playing this game in 2024, I'm pretty sure there were no re-balancing updates in the last two years, and I can't see half of the problems and bugs you describe in the OP. I'm not even sure why, but to me your gameplay experience sounds like a super bugfest. For example, my AI always uses only the two Dirty Tricks per half, just as they suppose to. Never saw them using an extra one.

Originally posted by michael1153:

• Super speed
  Many times, I have used WarpSpeed, only to have a mile long distance between my RB be gobbled up with 3 or more players who "catch up" and display the "turbo" mode multiple times to do that. Can I do that? Nope. Best part is when their player is a low rated player, with speed at nothing higher that 60, low tackle rating, and POOF....they not only caught up to you and tackled you, but caused you to die with one hit, fumble the call, and take it back with your rated 100 defensive players not making a dent in their health or ability to tackle.

This one would be one of only two points I'm ready to subscribe under. The AI is definitely cheating on speed and "turbo mode". No matter what, they always catch up with my offence way easier than my defence catch up with theirs. But, I have to say, that I feel like that without this cheat I would absolutely dominate the AI and leave them zero chances to win.
I mean, I played on second to last difficulty in the Season 5 and I made a perfect season, 13-0. So I've switched to the max difficulty to give an AI a chance, and the games are still rather easy - I pretty much only lose when I do a really blatant mistake, like losing a Murder Ball by running into a trap.
Aside from "super speed", the only other point of yours I support is a "magnet whip" stuff. Blitzing is pretty much impossible. Trying to get QB sacks on Enforcer to level him up without a Sticky Ball trick is a waste of time.
Edit: ah, well, actually, on second though, maybe I support "The untouchables" as well. Once again, I feel like without it AI wouldn't stand a chance, and it is really not as bad for me as it is described in the OP, but I wish AI's health at max difficulty depleted at least a little bit faster, so that we'd see forfeits at least on ocassion. The difference between All-Star and All-Pro difficulty is just too much.

Originally posted by michael1153:

I was going to ask as well, is there a feature to export your Dynasty team to be able to use in exhibition matches or other modes of the game?

What I am afraid of is the team that has been built up over all of this time, is forever "forgotten" after completion of Dynasty mode.

Given that the way your team is laid out in your Dynasty is pretty much unique code-wise, I'd say importing that to other game modes is impossible.
But there are some other options that I discovered if you are willing to do some work. You can extend your Dynasty past season 5. You can also reset your latest season and play with your team again.
If you are really ready to work it, you can manually add any team you want into your current season and face it. Make a backup of your savegame before you do it - and there go your exhibition matches.
All that stuff I will showcase in my video, which will be on my channel as soon as I'll complete season 6 and confirm that everything works as good as it can for a rather harsh code monkeying. So far so good though.
And yeah, I did all this exactly because I really do not want to lose the team I put 5 seasons of effort into. Well, 6 seasons of effort. Seriously, that would probably be my only real critique of the game: you just shouldn't take away from a player everything he accomplished.
Well, that and... optimization. It really could've been better. Frame drops on some arenas are just too much,