best starting country to learn?

[[PBS]Jura Lith]

I have been told by a good friend of mine belgium is a good country to start out and learn, just wondering if there are some tips someone can give me, i get lost/confused from tutorial at times

[✠ Sigmar ✠]

I concur that Belgium is fine. Sweden was my choice (also since the developer is Swedish). Both have in common that there are not too many provinces and no inherent conflicts with other nations. Don't start with Prussia or Austria, because those will be at each other's throats in a few decades. Also, don't take Great Britain with it's vast empire, you will get lost in the overwhelming details and multitude of theatres. Certainly do not start as a non-recognized country like Japan or someone in Africa, because that is a whole other thing...

That being said: No matter which country you take, the ingame tutorial will make you feel lost at times, and certain log entries only trigger after other conditions have been met by your country that you do not know about. In a nutshell: Try it, and if you lose the plot, consult a tutorial for the tutorial...

[[PBS]Jura Lith]

Originally posted by ✠ Sigmar ✠:

I concur that Belgium is fine. Sweden was my choice (also since the developer is Swedish). Both have in common that there are not too many provinces and no inherent conflicts with other nations. Don't start with Prussia or Austria, because those will be at each other's throats in a few decades. Also, don't take Great Britain with it's vast empire, you will get lost in the overwhelming details and multitide of theatres. Certainly do not start as a non-recognized country like Japan or someone in Africa, because that is a whole other thing...

That being said: No matter which country you take, the ingame tutorial will make you feel lost at times, and certain log entries only trigger after other conditions have been met by your country that you do not know about. In a nutshell: Try it, and if you lose the plot, consult a tutorial for the tutorial...

i see thank you Sigmar

[🍔Paradoxic Gamer🍟]

Spain is fairly easy too and generalistgaming has a great tutorial on it.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLL3Li_R8P-oqLfEFdw8dkmnckgx4JjQjR&si=gqwBDm_08s-csMUl

[dada416]

belgium or sweden

[✠ Sigmar ✠]

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡 󠀡:

first country i played as was brazil. its so ez to annex south america. first you may have a tough start economically but it got so many resources you'll be showing in money in no time, only down side is size, i like to play tall.

How is playing the large nation of Brazil and conquering a whole continent "playing tall"?

[adobo]

Japan is probably the best one to play everything. reforming, industrializing, getting recognition, then great power all in one game. High population, high literacy and all the industrial resources you need. Once you hit recognition, you'll be a great power and you can super charge your economy with debt spending.

[[PBS]Jura Lith]

Originally posted by adobo:

Japan is probably the best one to play everything. reforming, industrializing, getting recognition, then great power all in one game. High population, high literacy and all the industrial resources you need. Once you hit recognition, you'll be a great power and you can super charge your economy with debt spending.

That does sound really fun

[✠ Sigmar ✠]

Originally posted by Jura Lith:

Originally posted by adobo:

Japan is probably the best one to play everything. reforming, industrializing, getting recognition, then great power all in one game. High population, high literacy and all the industrial resources you need. Once you hit recognition, you'll be a great power and you can super charge your economy with debt spending.

That does sound really fun

You were not asking for a nation to "play everything". You were asking for a country to play in order to learn the game. I have played Japan, and I am telling you: This is a bad idea. Japan is difficult. Don't play it until you are familiar with how to manipulate domestic as well as international politics, build up an economy from scratch and prepare for wars playing catch-up to the European powers. Japan begins unrecognized (which means they cannot go into debt from the start), technologically backwards (which means their troops are inferior to Britain, France, the Dutch and Spain) AND isolationist (which means they cannot trade at all).

Don't listen to people who are unable to read and understand what you need

[[PBS]Jura Lith]

Originally posted by ✠ Sigmar ✠:

Originally posted by Jura Lith:

That does sound really fun

You were not asking for a nation to "play everything". You were asking for a country to play in order to learn the game. I have played Japan, and I am telling you: This is a bad idea. Japan is difficult. Don't play it until you are familiar with how to manipulate domestic as well as international politics, build up an economy from scratch and prepare for wars playing catch-up to the European powers. Japan begins unrecognized (which means they cannot go into debt from the start), technologically backwards (which means their troops are inferior to Britain, France, the Dutch and Spain) AND isolationist (which means they cannot trade at all).

Don't listen to people who are unable to read and understand what you need

i see, thank you sigmar I appreciate it good sir

[✠ Sigmar ✠]

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡 󠀡:

Originally posted by ✠ Sigmar ✠:

How is playing the large nation of Brazil and conquering a whole continent "playing tall"?

"learn" how "to" "read"

I can read. Can you?

[adobo]

Originally posted by ✠ Sigmar ✠:

You were not asking for a nation to "play everything". You were asking for a country to play in order to learn the game. I have played Japan, and I am telling you: This is a bad idea. Japan is difficult. Don't play it until you are familiar with how to manipulate domestic as well as international politics, build up an economy from scratch and prepare for wars playing catch-up to the European powers. Japan begins unrecognized (which means they cannot go into debt from the start), technologically backwards (which means their troops are inferior to Britain, France, the Dutch and Spain) AND isolationist (which means they cannot trade at all).

Don't listen to people who are unable to read and understand what you need

Japan is how I basically learned the game. Lots of trial and error. But you get to play every mechanics and learn them.

There's a lot of mechanics that help you along. You get a random great power to force open japan and end isolationism. Which will hurt the landlords and help with the reforms. You get the restoration journal entry to basically push you along industrialization and modernizing the military. Getting recognition with voting rights and high quality of life or going to war with great powers. By 1900, you're a great power and Japan's resources is starting to hit its limit which means time for some imperialism.

[✠ Sigmar ✠]

Originally posted by adobo:

Originally posted by ✠ Sigmar ✠:

You were not asking for a nation to "play everything". You were asking for a country to play in order to learn the game. I have played Japan, and I am telling you: This is a bad idea. Japan is difficult. Don't play it until you are familiar with how to manipulate domestic as well as international politics, build up an economy from scratch and prepare for wars playing catch-up to the European powers. Japan begins unrecognized (which means they cannot go into debt from the start), technologically backwards (which means their troops are inferior to Britain, France, the Dutch and Spain) AND isolationist (which means they cannot trade at all).

Don't listen to people who are unable to read and understand what you need

Japan is how I basically learned the game. Lots of trial and error. But you get to play every mechanics and learn them.

There's a lot of mechanics that help you along. You get a random great power to force open japan and end isolationism. Which will hurt the landlords and help with the reforms. You get the restoration journal entry to basically push you along industrialization and modernizing the military. Getting recognition with voting rights and high quality of life or going to war with great powers. By 1900, you're a great power and Japan's resources is starting to hit its limit which means time for some imperialism.

As I said: Very bad idea. One direct way for a player to get frustrated and overwhelmed by an accumulation of difficulties and give up on the game entirely. Bad advice. Period.

[schnappkatze]

I found, and hear me out, Buganda a good starting country to understand the very, very basics of the game without being distracted by the myriad of things to care about. I used to get get overwhelmed by having to look at too many states in my country, or having to read a dozen possible law changes that I didn't understand anyway.

In Buganda, you don't have to bother with trade (as you can't), or the superpowers (they can't reach you) or complicated technologies, institutions and laws (you don't have any).

You can learn at a very simple level how a market works, production and demand, SOL, how to manage your construction sector without crashing your economy, about interest groups in your country and so on. Your low starting technology level makes you unlock Universities, Factories, Institutions little by little, so you can understand them and their effects one at a time and feel the difference they make.

There comes a ceiling with Buganda, as there isn't much meaningful to do when you conquered all the neighbour states, but then it is time to try a different country to learn about different markets, trade and diplomacy.

I understand that there are many things you won't learn starting like this, but to deal with the information overloead I found it to be a perfect "tutorial island" where many of the more complicated game mechanics are not available.

A second step might be Switzerland, which is also relatively simple at the start (2 states, your own market) and spares you having to learn about colonozation and worldwide international trade, but offers more opportunities to grow and learn about trade and diplomacy.

[✠ Sigmar ✠]

Originally posted by schnappkatze:

In Buganda, you don't have to bother with trade (as you can't), or the superpowers (they can't reach you) or complicated technologies, institutions and laws (you don't have any).

Yeah, that's actually a bad thing, because if you need input goods for your buildings to work and you cannot produce them yet, you need to trade to get them. You can also not make factories profitable by exporting their products and raise the prices while being in isolation.

Trading is one of the basic functions of the game you absolutely have to learn. An isolated nation is not easy, it is harder. Why would you confuse a beginner asking for advice like this? It is borderline malicious.

[schnappkatze]

Originally posted by ✠ Sigmar ✠:

Trading is one of the basic functions of the game you absolutely have to learn. An isolated nation is not easy, it is harder. Why would you confuse a beginner asking for advice like this? It is borderline malicious.

It is not easier as in to "win" the game, just to get a grasp on the basic mechanics, to gradually learn at a basic level what is actually going on in this game.

If you are new, you basically have to learn a dozen different things at once, and I think it can be helpful to reduce the complexity to not overwhelm players. Especially if you have never played an economic simulator like this before, I'd think the basic thing to understand is how your own state works with its pops and their needs, its production and its market. To understand trade, you first have to understand how a market works, where the products come from, where they go etc.

The nice thing about Uganda is that it feels a bit like a tutorial or demo, where you are basically left alone from the rest of the world and can experiment with the basic mechanics like building factories to realize that they produce clothes more efficiently than your subsistence buildings (and what subsitence buildings are etc.) Sounds like an absolute no brainer, but it is something that you have to learn once, and I found it much easier to get a grasp on this stuff when I didn't have to simultaneously manage all the other mechanics (trade routes, diplomatic plays, military, vasalls, colonization, companies, elections, revolutions etc etc etc)

I think the first time I started the game I played as Britain and was at a complete and utter loss what was actually going on and how the game actually worked and was then very happy to discover Buganda as a country where I could just figure out how the economy works on a fundamental level.

Edit: Maybe I could add: Buganda not as a candidate for a serious first game, but as a country to play with when you are at the level of "clicking through the menus, figuring out what which button does, what does "wood shortage" mean exactly...?", so maybe the first 5 to ten hours or so.