Victoria 3

Victoria 3

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Edgy Willy Apr 3, 2023 @ 4:01pm
Do the raw resource nations know to focus on such?
Russia, Sweden, Canada ect. Those low infrastructure, high natural resource countries. Does the ai nation know to focus their economy on that? Or does every nation try to make a balanced mini economy with a little bit of everything?

Playing as France and my strat as a major first world countries was to just import most basics and refine them and sell those back. But the ai just has nothing to sell me. Whats the point of being friends with Russia if I have to build my own lumber?
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Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
moonlightavenger Apr 3, 2023 @ 5:35pm 
Yeah, I don't think that the AI knows how to play very well in that regard.
teron Apr 3, 2023 @ 6:28pm 
The risk of course being that if you end up on the wrong side of a war with them, or they decide to dislike you and embargo, or have successive civil wars. Then you get wood/hardwood shortages hitting your tool, furniture, arms and wooden ship industries with possible input shortages. With there potentially not being an alternative supplier.

Where as something like a custom union partner/protectorate/puppet/dominion can be nice, since they could develop their industry to provide goods to the market.

Or you can build lumber mills since they are faster to bring online then factories to have some guaranteed domestic supply. Plus their 2nd tier PM is earlier in the tech tree, which gives you capitalists as owners when you flip over to it.

If you have enough construction points for full building then a factory can take 23 weeks, a logging camp is 8. So you can build almost 3 logging camps in the time that it takes to build a factory, which on the base PMs employs 5K people so almost 15K workers getting better jobs. This ignoring that you can reduce the number of labours with efficiency techs. Meanwhile a lot of the early industry buildings on the base PMs are only 5K people employed (other then arms industry which employs more people).

Since any job > Peasant > unemployed > welfare unemployed. Because even a simple labour has a wage weight of 1 vs a Peasants 0.2, so if they worked the same building that gave an income of 10 as the base wage the Labour would make 10, Peasant 2. Farmer/Machinist would be 15. Which some of that better income would be captured by income taxes (laws depending). Plus labours would have higher wealth then a peasant, which translates to education access which effects literacy rates.

Really it is a good idea to periodically go though what you are importing from other countries and spam buildings to reduce your dependency on foreign countries. Especially once you start getting into the 500-2K construction point range.
Edgy Willy Apr 3, 2023 @ 7:26pm 
I dont disagree with you gameplay wise. But I was hoping the game was more a econ sim, seems kinda arcadey where everyone is equal. I wanna import some super cheap ass resources from poor countries. Then make some fancy bookcases and sell them back for 20x the cost like God intended.

Man I wish you could tell your puppets what to focus on market wise.
olstar18 Apr 3, 2023 @ 10:24pm 
Originally posted by Average War Crime Enjoyer:
I dont disagree with you gameplay wise. But I was hoping the game was more a econ sim, seems kinda arcadey where everyone is equal. I wanna import some super cheap ass resources from poor countries. Then make some fancy bookcases and sell them back for 20x the cost like God intended.

Man I wish you could tell your puppets what to focus on market wise.
Especially the ones sitting on resources that you know are profitable because the shortage warning is going on and off and yet don't build.
AlienWired Apr 4, 2023 @ 3:53pm 
In reality........

Most nations never exploit their own resources.

Look at Africa, full of natural resources...

Local Competing interests disallow for development of local resources or at the least, make it extremely hard and ethically/morally unacceptable. On top of that, local resources, no matter, have to follow market rates or they are not worth developing.

And in most cases the competing interests will always be able to produce resources cheaper.

To counter this in "real world" many natural resources of nations are exploited by 3rd party nations or their corporations, so that it makes local competing interests enslaved and will cooperate more than compete or even be ABLE to compete against the 3rd party nation.

Then there is Russia....

Filled with unexploited natural resources..... Fully dependent on 3rd parties to exploit them, because local competing interests have corrupted the ability to do such. This is proven by the fact that Russia depends on 3rd party nations to obtain the parts necessary to supply the infrastructure to exploit their resources. Not to mention corporations like Mobil and such "lending a hand". =) Their recent corrupt war has spotlighted the fact that they are fully dependent on 3rd parties, the sanctions and subsequent breakdown of their infrastructure and inability to repair is evidence.

Same problem in Africa.
Last edited by AlienWired; Apr 4, 2023 @ 4:02pm
Edgy Willy Apr 4, 2023 @ 4:00pm 
Africa is too decentralised and was never a resource extraction people. They were hunter/gatherer most of their existence. Russia has plenty of serfs and a history of feudalism to throw at the lumber yards.

Though Id agree there are places like the middle east who at the time were sitting on plenty of oil or like south east asian islands with all their rubber. Not knowing the value before machinery really took off and then Mr. Europe came knocking.
AlienWired Apr 4, 2023 @ 4:03pm 
Originally posted by Average War Crime Enjoyer:
Africa is too decentralised and was never a resource extraction people.

Because of localized competing interests and the willingness to corrupt the system at the expense of your local fellow human beings.

In order to extract resources there must be cooperation, unfortunately, human greed prevents this at all levels.

Hence why 3rd party's are always better to extract the resource this way it does not start local wars.

A perfect example of this is Standard Oil and Saudi Arabia. Human history is filled with these types of examples.

Blood diamonds of Africa.... PERFECT example of how local competing interests make it impossible for local peoples to exploit their own valued resources.

Because it starts BLOODY wars that last decades and oft times end up involving children because of the greed factor and the willingness to ethically and morally ignore the plight of your fellow human for the want of a piece of the earth. Whether it's a piece that can fit on a ring of your finger or can be plowed with a John Deere tractor.

Corporations have no political or local allegiances, their entire existence is centered on making a profit. Though they embrace human greed, they have no obligation to local people and so, are not a local competing interest.

The only thing left for the local controlling interests to exploit is the power and political base that the corporation supports. Without which, (the corporations will always keep reminding the people.) Would not exist in such lavish luxury and such peace, without the corporate.

And it's happened, MANY times..... Corporations pull out because local warlord becomes WAY to big for their britches and in some cases just SEIZE the corporate or another nice way to put it... "Nationalize it".... War touches off for decades or they end up with a dictator in power that uses the corporate to exploit the lands and resources , pays off the lap dogs that enforce their rule and the country ends up a hell hole. The corporate in many times in these cases have no army big enough to prevent this, unless they get the full weight and backing of a Greater power.


Thought....

The Gold Rush of '49 in California and others in Alaska, was before these places became states, where corporate law was in effect. The US government gave out prospects to local and singular people who then exploited the resources. Mostly independent small timers. All of that gold was too widely distributed and it caused a lot of bankruptcy the more that was dug up.

All those mining towns themselves all had localized competing interests and they were some of the most vile disgusting dirty mean living places you could be on earth.

Corporations lobbied the government to pass mining laws so that it would give them near exclusive access in the future.

All those towns either vanished or they became future cities all cleaned up and such.

It just shows you the power that corporations really have and how they can exploit earths resources once you have non competing interests that are not under obligation to the local people.
Last edited by AlienWired; Apr 4, 2023 @ 4:29pm
Honestly, try to be as self sufficient as possible. You CANNOT rely on the AI nations. Import things if you really can't get em, like opium or something.
Dray Prescot Apr 8, 2023 @ 8:35pm 
It is part of why having a Puppet State is not worth much, they do not develop their own resources that you want them to, so they can sell them to you.

A puppet is mostly useful in military matters, i.e. a base for you to reach and attack their neighboring States. With the Puppet State providing some minor military units to support you.

In special cases, having Puppet States is very useful when you can use them to form a bigger Nation/State such as Scandinavia or Germany, without having to annex them first.
Last edited by Dray Prescot; Apr 8, 2023 @ 8:36pm
SIX Apr 9, 2023 @ 7:40am 
Originally posted by Dray Prescot:
It is part of why having a Puppet State is not worth much, they do not develop their own resources that you want them to, so they can sell them to you.

A puppet is mostly useful in military matters, i.e. a base for you to reach and attack their neighboring States. With the Puppet State providing some minor military units to support you.

In special cases, having Puppet States is very useful when you can use them to form a bigger Nation/State such as Scandinavia or Germany, without having to annex them first.
Yeah its honestly the biggest problem the game have right now. As soon as they gonna let the overload build in the puppet nation it will be a game changer. I had a 1.5B Japan game where i went on to pupet south america and Persia for the oil they never discover and or build.
Last edited by SIX; Apr 9, 2023 @ 7:41am
Edgy Willy Apr 9, 2023 @ 8:25am 
Or even a war goal for like resource rights would be nice.
olstar18 Apr 9, 2023 @ 12:35pm 
Originally posted by SIX:
Originally posted by Dray Prescot:
It is part of why having a Puppet State is not worth much, they do not develop their own resources that you want them to, so they can sell them to you.

A puppet is mostly useful in military matters, i.e. a base for you to reach and attack their neighboring States. With the Puppet State providing some minor military units to support you.

In special cases, having Puppet States is very useful when you can use them to form a bigger Nation/State such as Scandinavia or Germany, without having to annex them first.
Yeah its honestly the biggest problem the game have right now. As soon as they gonna let the overload build in the puppet nation it will be a game changer. I had a 1.5B Japan game where i went on to pupet south america and Persia for the oil they never discover and or build.
Hell yeah. Even if you are building at a penalty being able to do that will make it so much easier to get key raw resources. Like my game as spain a couple weeks ago. I had issues getting enough coal and hardwood because my puppets wouldn't build and the regions I took didn't have enough workers to get decent production even with labor saving upgrades. Maybe should have a few decisions to increase the benefits of certain institutions like education and health if your puppet doesn't have as much investment as you do. It would make perfect sense for public works like hospitals to be established by them.
DinoMight Apr 9, 2023 @ 5:58pm 
Originally posted by Average War Crime Enjoyer:
I dont disagree with you gameplay wise. But I was hoping the game was more a econ sim, seems kinda arcadey where everyone is equal. I wanna import some super cheap ass resources from poor countries. Then make some fancy bookcases and sell them back for 20x the cost like God intended.

Man I wish you could tell your puppets what to focus on market wise.


you can actually do that.... its just not as direct as you would expect
teron Apr 10, 2023 @ 4:07am 
Originally posted by -=COMMUNIST=-:
Originally posted by SIX:
I had a 1.5B Japan game where i went on to pupet south america and Persia for the oil they never discover and or build.

There’s a difference though if you make them into your dominion or into your puppet. Latter will always auto-mobilise their troops whenever you’re in war so their economy will be constantly drained, leaving no room even for construction sectors.

They really need to expand subject interaction, so for example be able to flag if you actually want puppets to be in your wars or not.

Or a toggle to possibly replace the money they pay to their overlord in diplo fees with them focusing it into building a specific area of their economy instead. Since having a trade off of them giving you less money for them expanding their mining industry to feed your industry would be a nice thing.
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Date Posted: Apr 3, 2023 @ 4:01pm
Posts: 14