Is joining a custom union worth it?

[ryan]

I am the US and I've conquered most of Canada and Mexico as well as all 50 states. France keeps asking me to join their custom union. Is that something worth doing? I'm only on my 2nd playthrough so I dunno. I've managed to get my standard of living up to a 14 so far though.

[Zero, Dark Knight]

- read crispy Walrus below.

[Crazy8Chief]

^ right on the money answer

[teron]

Custom unions can be good for smaller nations who do not have the land to have access to all the needed resource to get their economy going, or don't yet have an established industry base. Since it gives you access to all the markets products without having to deal with admin costs of trade routes and convoys. So it can be good to help get an initial boot strap of your economy, e.g. giving you access to things you don't product like tools, or military goods to conquer people that have the resources you want.

Downside is your market can take a hit if the market owner is at war (with convoys being sunk), or if they kick you out.

Positive is you can leave whenever, just make sure you have a base industry prepped to support your shifted demand.

As the US, you would have access to most resources so it is likely not worth it.

[CrispyWalrus]

Publicado originalmente por Zero, Dark Knight:

Customs union removes all tariffs, so - if you export to them -> never join. if you import from them -> join..

Kinda how CU's work in real life, too.

Actually Trade Agreements do this-- remove all tariffs and bureaucratic overhead.

Customs unions merge markets.

The junior member joins the customs leader's market. In the OP example there would no longer be any US market but a larger French one the US a member of. So yes, no tariffs because its all the same market, but a huge difference to a simple Trade Agreement.

[Zero, Dark Knight]

Publicado originalmente por CrispyWalrus:

My bad on the mix up, it was the other way around in my head. - Edited.

[ΧΡHΣΤΟΣ850]

Publicado originalmente por teron:

Custom unions can be good for smaller nations who do not have the land to have access to all the needed resource to get their economy going, or don't yet have an established industry base. Since it gives you access to all the markets products without having to deal with admin costs of trade routes and convoys. So it can be good to help get an initial boot strap of your economy, e.g. giving you access to things you don't product like tools, or military goods to conquer people that have the resources you want.

Downside is your market can take a hit if the market owner is at war (with convoys being sunk), or if they kick you out.

Positive is you can leave whenever, just make sure you have a base industry prepped to support your shifted demand.

As the US, you would have access to most resources so it is likely not worth it.

Small question doesn't joining other markets increase demand and thus price of certain goods for example if i play a big oil producer and join the british market and the british have a large demand for oil dont i sell my oil for alot more? And so make more money?

[Dray Prescot]

The big thing is if you join a CU, your standing in the World is limited to a level below theirs.
IF France is a Great Power, your highest possible standing will be Major Power. A Country like the USA should be planning/expecting to become a Great Power as well, and being in a CU with anyone will not allow that.

IF they have access to a lot of consumer goods and luxury goods, that you have little or no access to, then joining their CU gets you access to them.

IF there are only a small number of types of goods being traded between you, you do not need the CU and just use normal Trade where tariffs are allowed, which make you more money, or a Trade Agreement where their are no Tariffs.

A bigger reason to consider a CU is that it is another step towards continuing to improve your relations with them. If you want a Defense Pact with them and/or French support in Diplomatic Plays (potential Wars) that involve you, then a CU with France makes more sense. BUT that means YOU will be supporting France in their DPs also, if you want to keep those good relations with them.

Are you selling a lot of one or two resources or goods to them? If you are NOT in a CU or do not have a Trade Agreement with them, you can levy Export Tariffs on those Resource or Goods and make even more money.

added: In your case of a USA that controls as much as you do. NO do not join France's CU, instead YOU should be inviting small countries around the World (particularly in Central+South America) that have useful resources, to Join YOUR CU, i.e. the CU of the USA.

[zoleeeee28]

Publicado originalmente por teron:

Positive is you can leave whenever, just make sure you have a base industry prepped to support your shifted demand.

If you are in a CU, is there a way to see for each products, what is the demand and supply of your own market to kinda prepare to leave the CU?

[teron]

Publicado originalmente por zoleeeee28:

Publicado originalmente por teron:

Positive is you can leave whenever, just make sure you have a base industry prepped to support your shifted demand.

If you are in a CU, is there a way to see for each products, what is the demand and supply of your own market to kinda prepare to leave the CU?

Tried and true method is save the game --> Leave the union to see what your mess is, and if it is bad take note of the issue then reload the save.

Other then that, also make sure that you have a large natural resource industry, paper(for government admin), ports (for your convoys) and admin capacity. Then start importing your shortfall materials and exporting your surpluses.

There will more then likely be some short term pain for your economy but then you get the option to create your own customs union. So prep may also involve getting good relations and obligations to try pulling countries into your new union.

[Tigah]

They are ideally suited for when one nation needs raw resources and the other produces it (and thus can make good cash and get access to goods they can't self produce). But since there is no way to influence what other nations do, and the AI simply builds a massively spread industry in most cases thus rarely useful (as CU leader). Egypt/Cuba is never going to turn into a cash crop country like it did historically with British/US encouragement, and the player country will always try to be as self sufficient on raw resources as possible. So it won't help you later in the game to give the AI access to an entire industry and raws like oil/electricity/glass for their stalls because even if you got Sindh to join your market they are never going to have 116 Opium plantations which you so desperately need them to do.


Their most useful ability is probably that you are gifted 50 % convoys of subject CU members (which means you don't have to fund as many costly ports early on). Smaller nations get a (probably) defensive overlord that they can opt out of and access to niche goods that are costly to self produce (engines, weapons, ammunition, explosives). Oh I guess its occasionally useful for diplomatically protecterating nations. (its -10 reason if you are not in a CU).


I haven't tried enough small nations to see if they're useful (Korea is tributary and thus has no choice, it would probably prefer to just be independent and tariff trade routes with Qing if it could). But I don't see them being useful on stuff like Sweden, Brazil/Mexico, Portugal or other medium sized nations. Their economies are simply too large. Maybe challengingly small nations with under 4 states find them more useful.

[Toblm]

Publicado originalmente por ryantactics:

I am the US and I've conquered most of Canada and Mexico as well as all 50 states. France keeps asking me to join their custom union. Is that something worth doing? I'm only on my 2nd playthrough so I dunno. I've managed to get my standard of living up to a 14 so far though.

In principle joining CUs can be worth it, for certain countries.
The US that controls North America is almost certainly not one of those countries.