Are Diplomatic plays just really bad?

[Zefurion]

Every time I try to conquer a state, 2 or more great powers side against me. Some, with no clear interest in the matter ie Im playing as Italy, trying to attack Austria.

France Hates Austria but chose to side with THEM despite me having good relations with them?

I am now forced to back down instantly as I dont have the military to fighting both and then for no reason whatsoever I have to pay reparations to austria, Despite there never being a war.

so 1) How do I get a clearer picture of who would join who in the war before chosing to start the diplomatic play? The Tooltip that gives some information of the enemies I would face is not clear at all as to who countries might choose to side wiht.

2) Why do we have to pay reparations or give any sort of war goal if we back down??

[Nuprin Feelgood]

what is your current global reputation? that is a factor. as well as your relationship with the countries that may or may not intervene. you can also check the diplomatic standing of the country you are moving against and their relationships with possible intervening nations.

if you back down from a diplomatic play, you automatically forfeit their first war goal against you. so don't start plays unless you intend to follow through, this is also a tactic to consider when choosing the first play against someone who may back down from you.

[CrispyWalrus]

Consider every country in the interest area that you're considering your diplomatic play in. What are relations between you and each? What are relations between your target in each? Unless your relations are vastly better then consider what each of those nations goals in that interest area are. By that I mean the little bit at the bottom of the nation screen that shows you their strategic goals whether it's maintaining the balance of power or expanding the borders. If you're making a diplomatic play then you are the one upsetting the proverbial apple cart. Those that want to maintain the status quo will definitely see you as an aggressor at best and an enemy at worst. Offering and owning obligations is extremely important. That second phase is a lot of diplomatic maneuvering and swaying of these nations in that interest area. I find it pretty fun and very gratifying if I can force my opponent to back down. But like the last poster said be ready for war always. Don't make a diplomatic play unless you can force the issue if need be.

[Double N'wah]

The game is essentially incomplete with many systems missing that will come in DLC. Fighting wars is like doing it with two hands tied behind your back blindfolded compared to what Im sure it will be like with DLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 and 8.

Also for example, Hudson Bay Company and East India Company are pretty much unplayable because they are vassals, there will be an entire DLC about those 2 plus the cape colony, maybe a couple others. So predictable.

[IAM`PSYKO]

Originally posted by Bigot:

The game is essentially incomplete with many systems missing that will come in DLC. Fighting wars is like doing it with two hands tied behind your back blindfolded compared to what Im sure it will be like with DLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 and 8.

Also for example, Hudson Bay Company and East India Company are pretty much unplayable because they are vassals, there will be an entire DLC about those 2 plus the cape colony, maybe a couple others. So predictable.

every paradox game has 100000 DLCs, addons, flavour packs, und Überraschungseier as we said in germany

[Kimlin]

Originally posted by Bigot:

The game is essentially incomplete with many systems missing that will come in DLC. Fighting wars is like doing it with two hands tied behind your back blindfolded compared to what Im sure it will be like with DLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 and 8.

Also for example, Hudson Bay Company and East India Company are pretty much unplayable because they are vassals, there will be an entire DLC about those 2 plus the cape colony, maybe a couple others. So predictable.

But playing as a vassal is completely viable and could be preferable in certain situations. Wait are you just going off of videos you’ve seen?

[Antsan]

Yeah they are. Note how they don't have the game.

[Nuprin Feelgood]

Originally posted by Antsan:

Yeah they are. Note how they don't have the game.

just driving their bandwagon thru town, reveling in the sound of their own voices.
(not that they are wrong, though)

has nothing to do with the OP question.

[WalrusJones]

My one complaint is how the game handles diplo plays where a country can join both sides.

You can win over those parties against the AI if you run the game on speed 2, but practically at speeds 3-4 the AI always wins contests of clicking and inviting people in a diplomatic play.

[teron]

Originally posted by WalrusJones:

My one complaint is how the game handles diplo plays where a country can join both sides.

You can win over those parties against the AI if you run the game on speed 2, but practically at speeds 3-4 the AI always wins contests of clicking and inviting people in a diplomatic play.

Or worse, you sway someone to your side and then the next tick they declare neutrality.

Mostly I just wait till the more annoying Great Powers in the region are busy doing other stuff.
Example of this is when as Great Qing when I went conquer and take back Portugal's Treaty port. So it was Russia + Great Qing vs Portugal + Great Britain and all its subjects. But Great Britain was already in different wars against the US, France and Austria. So even if they got involved, the would not have forces to spare.
Portugal wisely in this case backed down.

[Ratio decidendi]

Where they have no clear interest, states often prefer to maintain the status quo, that is until they are in a position to capitalise for their own interest. Remember the 19th century was mostly about sphere of influence and balance of power politics; there were no permanent alliances.

Some other factors to consider before making diplomatic plays include any impact on the markets, the strategic plans of your target/neighbours, your reputation and the target's reputation.

Backing down in a diplomatic play is almost akin to conceding defeat without a fight. That's why it is important to thoroughly assess the situation before making the play.

[Dummkopf]

Nothing ever goes your way in paradox games. That's just the way it is.

[Emygdius]

Originally posted by Kimlin:

Originally posted by Bigot:

The game is essentially incomplete with many systems missing that will come in DLC. Fighting wars is like doing it with two hands tied behind your back blindfolded compared to what Im sure it will be like with DLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 and 8.

Also for example, Hudson Bay Company and East India Company are pretty much unplayable because they are vassals, there will be an entire DLC about those 2 plus the cape colony, maybe a couple others. So predictable.

But playing as a vassal is completely viable and could be preferable in certain situations. Wait are you just going off of videos you’ve seen?

If anything, playing as a vassal is super powerful, and infinitely easier at game start, ESPECIALLY if your objective is to overtake one of the great powers. Feed off of their market, get rich, become militarily stronger, rebel. GEt their enemies to fight your war for you. Its like they don't play the game before commenting. SOme complaints are legit, but that is just bloody stupid.

[Toblm]

Originally posted by teron:

Originally posted by WalrusJones:

My one complaint is how the game handles diplo plays where a country can join both sides.

You can win over those parties against the AI if you run the game on speed 2, but practically at speeds 3-4 the AI always wins contests of clicking and inviting people in a diplomatic play.

Mostly I just wait till the more annoying Great Powers in the region are busy doing other stuff.

This is a good strategy that more players should think of...

[Emygdius]

Originally posted by Toblm:

Originally posted by teron:

Mostly I just wait till the more annoying Great Powers in the region are busy doing other stuff.

This is a good strategy that more players should think of...

I ALWAYS make my first move the second GB starts the Opium wars if they have an interest in my area. They 100% won't get involved from what I have experienced. France on the other hand...

[Scrotum Scratcher]

the diplomacy system is just bad. nations like russia will intervene in small wars in south america