how do i avoid the civil war as the usa

[John Cena]

i've been trying to industrialize as much as i can and lower the clout of the land owners and yeoman but i still get a civil war (although they are very weak and get crushed).

is there a way i can avoid the civil war? can I just shoot them???

[olstar18]

Not really. If you could get a leader for landowners who was anti slavery you might be able to but I don't see that happening.

[Alex]

1. Rush for commercialized agriculture, since this switches the political interests away from the yeoman and land owner parties. Of course, you may not get there in time, and trying to enact this might spark an uprising. https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Economy_laws#Land_Reform
2. The party ideology is always modified by the leader, but there are also shifts due to technologies or events. Look for a window of opportunity when there's an anti-slavery leader, or where the party/clout most likely to rebel is isolated due to ideological differences.
https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Ideology
3. Drain the support base by ruining them. For example, through cheap grain imports. Afterwards, you'll be free to build farms and enact "commercialized agriculture".
4. If all else fails, remove all barracks from the states which are most likely to rebel, and crush their pathetic forces once they actually dare to challenge you.

[John Cena]

Originally posted by Alex:

1. Rush for commercialized agriculture, since this switches the political interests away from the yeoman and land owner parties. Of course, you may not get there in time, and trying to enact this might spark an uprising. https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Economy_laws#Land_Reform
2. The party ideology is always modified by the leader, but there are also shifts due to technologies or events. Look for a window of opportunity when there's an anti-slavery leader, or where the party/clout most likely to rebel is isolated due to ideological differences.
https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Ideology
3. Drain the support base by ruining them. For example, through cheap grain imports. Afterwards, you'll be free to build farms and enact "commercialized agriculture".
4. If all else fails, remove all barracks from the states which are most likely to rebel, and crush their pathetic forces once they actually dare to challenge you.

Thanks for the advice!

Regarding #2, what determines permanent changes to the interest group's ideologies? Does the leader need a high popularity or something? Also, is the only way to change a party leader to assassinate them or use an event?

[Alex]

Originally posted by John Cena:

Regarding #2, what determines permanent changes to the interest group's ideologies? Does the leader need a high popularity or something? Also, is the only way to change a party leader to assassinate them or use an event?

A permanent change is usually caused by researching a technology. For example, if you research "Corporatism", then the "devout" party (however it is named), will switch their "pious" ideology for the "corporatist" one.
https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Ideology#Non-starting_ideologies

In the case of a leader, there are a couple of events, usually tied to elections, which may cause a party leader to be switched. Plan beforehand, and have a potential replacement candidate ready, for example, a popular general or admiral with the desired ideology. Also, weed out undesirable ones through retirement or by ruining their reputation.
https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Character#Interest_group_leaders

To attempt an assassination, you'd have to enact "Secret Police". Since this law will be rather difficult to pass, and doesn't synergy very well with "national guard"/"national militia" combo the US usually has, you have no other choice but to wait for the leader's death or an event.
https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Character#Character_interactions

[John Cena]

Originally posted by Alex:

Originally posted by John Cena:

Regarding #2, what determines permanent changes to the interest group's ideologies? Does the leader need a high popularity or something? Also, is the only way to change a party leader to assassinate them or use an event?

A permanent change is usually caused by researching a technology. For example, if you research "Corporatism", then the "devout" party (however it is named), will switch their "pious" ideology for the "corporatist" one.
https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Ideology#Non-starting_ideologies

In the case of a leader, there are a couple of events, usually tied to elections, which may cause a party leader to be switched. Plan beforehand, and have a potential replacement candidate ready, for example, a popular general or admiral with the desired ideology. Also, weed out undesirable ones through retirement or by ruining their reputation.
https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Character#Interest_group_leaders

To attempt an assassination, you'd have to enact "Secret Police". Since this law will be rather difficult to pass, and doesn't synergy very well with "national guard"/"national militia" combo the US usually has, you have no other choice but to wait for the leader's death or an event.
https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Character#Character_interactions

So the override from the leader is temporary and any permanent change is tied to technologies?

[Alex]

Originally posted by John Cena:

So the override from the leader is temporary and any permanent change is tied to technologies?

Yes, that's how it works. In real-life as well, no?

Anyway, in your case, you can either wait for an opportunity to change the leader(s), attempt to marginalize the parties/clouts most likely to rebel, or just fight it out.

Once you've banned slavery, and especially after you've commercialized your agriculture, the land-owners will be quickly marginalized anyway, so you can just forget about them.

[John Cena]

Originally posted by Alex:

Originally posted by John Cena:

So the override from the leader is temporary and any permanent change is tied to technologies?

Yes, that's how it works. In real-life as well, no?

Anyway, in your case, you can either wait for an opportunity to change the leader(s), attempt to marginalize the parties/clouts most likely to rebel, or just fight it out.

Once you've banned slavery, and especially after you've commercialized your agriculture, the land-owners will be quickly marginalized anyway, so you can just forget about them.

Got it. Thanks!!

[oldschool]

I passed censorship, secret police, and dedicated police as the first laws in my latest run.

Was suppressing the pro slavery movement, and bolstering the anti slavery movement. from the start. In 1866 we abolished slavery without a civil war or even a brewing revolution

[Alex]

Originally posted by oldschool:

I passed censorship, secret police, and dedicated police as the first laws in my latest run.

Was suppressing the pro slavery movement, and bolstering the anti slavery movement. from the start. In 1866 we abolished slavery without a civil war or even a brewing revolution

Even by stacking the modifiers like that, I didn't find the suppression alone powerful enough. It might tip the scales, although the trade-off is quite significant. Did you do anything else beside suppressing/bolstering?

[Scheneighnay]

I play as the US far more often than any other country yet I've NEVER had the civil war happen. Not really trying to brag, just saying the odds are in your favor and maybe it's a little too easy to avoid.

There are 3 components to this.
1. Keep the southern planters as happy as possible. Most likely they'll keep winning elections while an abolitionist interest group like the evangelicals joins their party, as the evangelicals like what the planters like.
2. Set your laws and focus your constructions to pull power away from the planters wherever you can. Sounds like you already figured that out.
3. Abolish slavery once it becomes an option and the southern planters are happy enough and weak enough that you can pass the law without the planters being radicalized.

Works every time.

[oldschool]

Originally posted by Alex:

Originally posted by oldschool:

I passed censorship, secret police, and dedicated police as the first laws in my latest run.

Was suppressing the pro slavery movement, and bolstering the anti slavery movement. from the start. In 1866 we abolished slavery without a civil war or even a brewing revolution

Even by stacking the modifiers like that, I didn't find the suppression alone powerful enough. It might tip the scales, although the trade-off is quite significant. Did you do anything else beside suppressing/bolstering?

Not that I can think of

If I could I took decisions that took power away for the farmers, and plantation owners. I also really only built in Pennsylvania, NY, and OH focusing on construction and min/maxed the edict for immigration between NY, PA, and OH

In previous patches it was much faster to suppress the southern planters sub 8% and avoid the war, this patch it just took more time

[Alex]

Originally posted by oldschool:

If I could I took decisions that took power away for the farmers, and plantation owners. I also really only built in Pennsylvania, NY, and OH focusing on construction and min/maxed the edict for immigration between NY, PA, and OH

I've actually done something similar, just a bit more cruel. First, I ruined them through cheap imports from China (and I think Russia for fabric), while building replacement farms/plantations (as well as factories) in those northern states, and aimed for "mutual funds" to sell those new industries to capitalists. However, "commercialized agriculture" wasn't even neccessary, since those planters got marginalized long before, because the impoverished farmers migrated northwards to work in factories.

[oldschool]

Originally posted by Alex:

Originally posted by oldschool:

If I could I took decisions that took power away for the farmers, and plantation owners. I also really only built in Pennsylvania, NY, and OH focusing on construction and min/maxed the edict for immigration between NY, PA, and OH

I've actually done something similar, just a bit more cruel. First, I ruined them through cheap imports from China (and I think Russia for fabric), while building replacement farms/plantations (as well as factories) in those northern states, and aimed for "mutual funds" to sell those new industries to capitalists. However, "commercialized agriculture" wasn't even neccessary, since those planters got marginalized long before, because the impoverished farmers migrated northwards to work in factories.

lol, thats clever