The problem with Isolationism

[Zebulon Ecthelion]

Isolationism might be the worst law in the game. Which is fine, not all laws have to be viable, especially the more obviously feudal and backwards laws. However, unlike most backwards/feudal laws, there basically is no natural movement against isolationism. The closest you're going to get is the Industrialist faction, but considering that they're tied to industry and the capitalists, they're never going to get powerful enough to influence government in the backwards nations that typically start off with isolationism, especially considering that the Landowners support isolationism. This is because industrial development is soft capped for nations without the ability to produce railroads because only railroads and docks increase your infrastructure and there is no less efficient, "primitive" alternative. And, ironically, most of the backwards nations that start with isolationism need to import goods like steel and engines in order to build railroads.

What's more, native agitators are mostly focused on domestic policies and political structure and don't care about things like trade.

It leaves you in a situation where you're basically praying to the RNG God to give you a politician with a trade trait.

All of which is to ask if there could be something added to help make change trade laws or to make isolationism more viable, like adding in a "primitive" alternative to railroads.

[Dcethe]

Originally posted by Naram-Sin:

Originally posted by Dcethe:

Its realistic tho, you don't see those countries with isolation policies becoming super tech / industrialized giants in real life.

instead you get backwards china or japan. both which had to industrialize super fast in order to not get swept up by the global powers.

those that were isolationist in Africa just got colonized.

just max out your universities bro and speedrun to railroad.

You can't build railroads without trade, you need steel and engines.

I'm not asking that isolationism be good, just that you should either get a more surefire way to change your trade laws or get some method by which your development isn't softcapped by not being able to make railroads.

Everyone starts off with steel tech unlocked tho? its a T1 research. You unlock engines before you unlock railroads.

If you plan it out its doable, tho I understand where your coming from. its a good 20-30 years before you unlock that tech other nations start with. All you can do is build up your basic economy, build universities and wait.

[Dave Reckoning]

Originally posted by Naram-Sin:

I'm not asking that isolationism be good, just that you should either get a more surefire way to change your trade laws

Changing Trade Laws:
- Do the pre-requisite research
- Get a government that will enable the law to be enacted and ensure the law has enough support.

Ensuring the Law has enough support:
- Bolster / suppress the appropriate Interest Groups
- Invite agitators that support the laws you want / exile politicians that oppose
- If all else fails annoy the IGs that stand against you so that they rebel, and then suppress the revolution.

Other people will be able to offer other approaches I'm sure, but that should do the job well enough to feel "surefire".

And if all else fails you, watch some YouTube videos.

Have a nice day.

[Dcethe]

Originally posted by based and truly redpilled:

Originally posted by Dcethe:

Its realistic tho, you don't see those countries with isolation policies becoming super tech / industrialized giants in real life.

The West is literally scared of Kim’s big rockets and Putin is buying up NORK goods.

NORK is the best example for how an isolated market can develop a highly industrialised and egalitarian society with a unique and untainted culture. Speaking of which, NORK already had codified sex equality in 1942 in its laws, at a time where women still were household slaves in America.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Feminism/s/l13QFh4sas

thats cool and all but how does that have to do with the victorian era irl or the game.

[Dave Reckoning]

Originally posted by based and truly redpilled:

You literally got an example for how isolated markets can lead to the development of highly industrialised nations with unique culture and an egalitarian, anti-imperialist setup. Just because in your known history Western imperialism managed to destroy every nation worldwide before it could develop its own way doesn’t mean that it’s impossible.

Er..... North Korea might be isolated from the West, but it's very much supported by China (and now Ruzzia). They got their tech from China (and now more from Ruzzia).

With their own tech, they couldn't even feed their people.

They ain't isolated, they fully supported.

[Dcethe]

Originally posted by based and truly redpilled:

Originally posted by Dcethe:

thats cool and all but how does that have to do with the victorian era irl or the game.

You literally got an example for how isolated markets can lead to the development of highly industrialised nations with unique culture and an egalitarian, anti-imperialist setup. Just because in your known history Western imperialism managed to destroy every nation worldwide before it could develop its own way doesn’t mean that it’s impossible.

Except they were conquered by Japan, who was trading with the world and had its own Empire. Like I said earlier I am refering to a specific time period reflected in this game, the Victorian age. 1800s-1930s. plus like the other dude said, communist countries supported each other.

[Dave Reckoning]

If you want a better example of Isolationism working, you'd have to look at an alternative-history USA. That might work, since they got all the resources they need, and a vast internal market.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, Ruzzia is now fairly isolated, and their economy won't last.

But like the first dude said - you look at Victorian era, isolation not really work. And in-game, if you want to get on in the world, the best thing to do with Isolationism is abolish it.

[VoiD]

Won't corn laws work?

Also, isolationism can work, once you're a superpower.

If you annex a few giant chinese or inidian states and develop them you'd have all the consumer market you'd ever need.

[Kiethoo]

I played as a Isolationist Super Germany once, it actuelly wasn't to bad but obviously by 1890 I had plenty of tech advantage and my Economy was self sufficient, This was 1.6 though.

Haven't played Japan since 1.3 but isn't the goal to weaken the Shogun and Samuri so you can get a pro government towards opening up?

[D-Black Catto]

unlike most laws you can fix isolationism by going to war against anyone and having them add "opem market" war goal against you.

[Kiethoo]

to be fair i wasn't "Germany" I was Pan-Europa, with a wierd mix of Left and Right laws.
Mostly laws to make my People Healthy and Strong, while having the righty laws making Germania for Germanians.

But it was gloriously fun, especially with all taxes set to lowest, and QoL the highest I ever got it for all 3 strats

[Dcethe]

Originally posted by Kiethoo:

to be fair i wasn't "Germany" I was Pan-Europa, with a wierd mix of Left and Right laws.
Mostly laws to make my People Healthy and Strong, while having the righty laws making Germania for Germanians.

But it was gloriously fun, especially with all taxes set to lowest, and QoL the highest I ever got it for all 3 strats

whats the most QOL average you gotten for your peps? I got to 15.3 before I stopped playing in 1880 out of boredom and hadn't gotten communist / socialist parties yet. I heard cooperative ownership is still powerful for SOL.

[endymionologist]

I don't think I've ever ended Isolationism through a normal law debate, I usually have my law-change-schedule fully packed and opening your market is one of the only law changes you can get for free.